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Extreme Dolfinism

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Monofins have been available for SCUBA divers to use for ages now...

I am familiar with the Aqueon, but I'm not including it in this category because it is not a true monofin (it has two fins, but in tandem instead of side-by-side). There are several fairly obvious reasons why the Aqueon never caught on with scuba divers that I think the DOL-Fin overcomes (primarily because it is a true monofin).

Also, I don't consider the monofins used for underwater orienteering to be scuba fins, but instead freediving monofins used in an application where the scuba configuration has been drastically modified to allow it to integrate functionally with the monofin at the expense of recreational practicality.

If there is something else that I am unaware of, please elaborate on what this equipment is, because I'd like to know about it.
 
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Regular monofins. If SCUBA divers were keen on going in a straight line very fast and efficiently, they could just use a Waterway MD1 or something. The fact they aren't (generally speaking) interested doesn't seem to bode well for the DOL-fin as a SCUBA fin, since the tradeoff is the same. You go real fast, but you have to tie your feet together.
 
The first, and perhaps most important, reason why recreational scuba divers have not been able to use conventional monofins for scuba diving is that the fin loads pitch the swimmer's body up and down as the fin is stroked which results in the user's head getting repeatedly knocked on the back of the head by the tank valve as they swim. This reason alone takes conventional monofins out of the running for scuba fins in recreational diving applications. The underwater orienteering configuration avoids this problem by moving the scuba tank off the divers back, making it a hand-held system instead. It is a very effective solution for them, but not a viable solution for recreational diving.

The second reason is that, even if you solve the pitching problem when applied to a scuba diver, the traditional monofin will not be that much more efficient than the scuba fins they had been using. The details of why this happens gets rather complicated, but the truth is that the classic monofin will not experience the same efficient operation on a scuba diver that it can provide to a freediver. The primary reason for this is the same reason why monofin technique is so important for freediving and fin-swimming performance, but there is also a secondary reason with the fin's Strouhal number drastically falling off design point.

The DOL-Fin HP solves these problems and spikes the thrust efficiency for scuba diving so drastically that it will be difficult for scuba divers to comprehend the importance.

There is the safety element. The ability to swim fast does not mean that you have to swim fast, but it means that you can when you need to. Every year there are many diver emergencies, resulting from divers being swept away by currents and unable too get back to their dive boat, sometimes with drastic and even fatal consequences. Also, the reduced work load the fin places on the divers body will reduce the effects of narcosis at depth and will also reduce the divers susceptibility to DCS in relation to the decompression models in their dive computers.

The DOL-Fin HP's swimming efficiency also can significantly extend dive times.

Many divers are transitioning to rebreathers, and units like the KISS GEM (Gas Extension Module) are being introduced to serve the recreational market as a way to extend the duration of standard open-circuit (OC) scuba. Although much as been done to eliminate the operational complexity and improve component reliability in the KISS GEM, it still retains many of the risks that rebreather divers are exposed to over and above OC scuba divers.

In contrast, a DOL-Fin HP can extend the standard OC scuba by lowering workload instead of recycling breathing gas. In doing so, it not only avoids the risks associated with gas recycling, but it introduces the fore-mentioned safety elements to the dive as well. Plus, the lower workload can produce a more relaxed and enjoyable dive, and that is very important in recreational diving.

All these elements combined are very significant in my opinion, but most divers will have a hard time comprehending this and how it can benefit them. They will look at the DOL-Fin and only see a speed machine. They will likely think "I don't swim fast when I dive; I don't need that weird looking thing" and they will walk away. It will take time and education for them to begin to understand the benefits, which is why I said that the DOL-Fin HP is probably years ahead of its time (at least for scuba applications). If freedivers help to spread the word on these benefits, it might help to shorten the time lag which may ultimately benefit freedivers too. The scuba market is presently much larger than the freediving market and can be a base for manufacturing volume that can drastically drive down costs and add diversity to the product offerings as well.
 
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I suspect that any Scubie who lacks propulsion will buy a scooter. They don't seem to be the most motivated type - if they were then they'd be freediving! :t
 
I suspect that any Scubie who lacks propulsion will buy a scooter. They don't seem to be the most motivated type - if they were then they'd be freediving! :t

Excellent points Will. You are correct in that a DPV is generally the scuba diver's remedy to inadequate propulsion. However, DPVs are heavy, difficult to travel with, expensive, require long charging intervals between dives or swappable battery packs, they are a reliability risk on the dive and occupy the diver's hands as well; far from the ideal solution in my opinion, but the only viable solution available until now. I believe the DOL-Fins can provide a better solution in some of those cases where divers are currently resorting to using a DPV to boost their propulsion.

As freedivers, we tend to be more aware of the importance of swimming efficiency, but scuba divers still have a limited gas supply available and still deal with many of the same issues as us. I like to think of a freediver as the ultimate evolution of a good scuba diver. At some point in their skills development they are ready to take off the training wheels (or in this case, air tank). I'd like to think we can both benefit from this new technology and from each other.
 
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I certainly hope you are right that scubies, after an introduction, will want a dol-fin. A drop in unit cost and I'd sure like to own one. However, the maneuverability issue is a big hurtle to get over and I'd be surprised if the average scuba diver would trade off maneuverability for speed, safety or efficiency. Maybe there are enough niche divers out there for whom the advantages are so huge that they will switch. Hope so, even a small percentage of scubies is a lot of dol-fins. I'll be glad to do my part spreading the word. I know quite a few gearhead, serious spearos who might just be interested.

I can envision how to change my freediving style to fit a mono, but can't begin to see how it could work for the type of scuba I used to do, even though it covered a lot of lateral ground

Connor.
 
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This is the problem I had when I tried to use my monofin on scuba. It was such a pain in the neck (head) that I gave up on the idea. Most of the scuba that we do around here (Great Lakes) is on shipwrecks and I just don't see it being all that useful. I know plenty of divers with rebreathers and scooters, but they have the ability to tie off their scooters on the outside of the wreck while going in for a swim. This is not something that a monofin would allow.

Maybe it would work better in some tropical local where you're just cruising reefs and you don't need to work about entanglement issues. If it packs small then it would be better than trying to drag your scooter along on vacation- especially with today's baggage weight limitations that the airlines are imposing. What would be ideal is if you could somehow design away for the fin to divide into two separate parts so that the diver could swim inside a wreck or cave and use proper anti-silting fin techniques. It's pretty hard to frog kick or do a helicopter turn with a monofin on.

Jon
 
Scuba and monofins - hmmm don't really see it.. Have you ever seen a whale with tanks? No! There you go.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
I have been testing the DOLfin classic, where i live right on a wonderful tropical reef. Personally I would ban their use on the reef for scuba. The reason is simple....you will have a piece of metal bout 2 feet sticking out on either side of you and certainly be accidentally scraping against precious reef ornaments and if you need to turn you will bang up the reef. I've done it many times myself and I have a few months of practice on them....for newbies on scuba and such recreational hobbyists, they will surely cause some damage during the learning curve of these DOLfins and find them too cumbersome. And even for experts there would be no justification for reef exploring.

With bifins, which are a natural extension of your body length you are much more aware of the natural position--a straight line. Swimming for fun with an unforgiving perpendicular T-cross next to a reef is not reasonable. Because I would imagine you want to get as close to the reef as you can! Besides, it seems the main purpose of these fins are to maximize efficiency and speed-- great for dynamic apnea events and perhaps CWT line freediving. I don't do scuba myself but if I did I think i'd rather go somewhat slowly and doddle around enjoying a slow experience without any second thought of a lateral protrusion that could likely damage the precious reefs.

I am saying this because I only freedive and I also explore my reef as daily practice and I have done much more damage with these fins on the reef than I could have ever done with bifins. "Almighty reef forgive me!"

I would say, let us explore and try to sell these to the scuba world AFTER these are proven in freediving.
 
My DOL-Fin Orca is already very scratched up, both the fairing and the blade, from banging it around the rocks/reefs. I don't worry about the fin itself since it seems bulletproof, but the environment around me is a different story. Stuffing the fairing with buoyancy did reduce the tendency to crash it around the bottom. I have tried three buoyancy setups, 1) unmodified, highly negative fin, 2) neutral fin, and 3) highly positive. Only #3 really prevented the fin from banging around the rocks, and when spearfishing it still didn't escape since I was required to 'land' and wait for the fish then swim off the bottom.

Luckily the spots I am diving, I am not 'killing' things with the Orca, but there are some spots in my area that are so dense with life that damaging the reef could be a concern.

I still think that for me, diving in cold water, one of the biggest advantages of the Orca is the footpocket, which allows me to use 5mm socks, have perfect power transfer, and feet that never even get close to getting cold.
 
I did a little swimming at the Ichetucknee river in Florida. It is a beautiful spring fed river with very clear water. This is a video of some swimming I did at Blue Hole Spring along the river's edge. The center of the pond has a vertical shaft about 10 meters deep and a sloping bottom that leads down to a cave entrance at about 20 meters deep. There is about a 1/3 meter per second vertical flow exiting the spring opening.

Spring water is sooo refreshing!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmPOwTMoV2g]YouTube - ‪Clear Water DOL-Fin Swimming in Blue Hole Spring‬‏[/ame]
 
I will be really AMAZED the day I see a scuba diver (who is not also a freediver) use a monofin.

Partly because it's really uncomfortable but mainly for the reason that Will mentioned - I can't imagine any pure scubie putting the time and effort to learn how to monofin (no offense!). It's always going to be less manoeuvrable than bi-fins, easy to hit on reefs etc and generally messing up the water visibility if used near the bottom... Besides, any scubie that puts in the effort and time to learn how to monofin will surely switch over to freediving ;-)

Nice video by the way! The DOL-FIN looks very... tempting!
 

Obviously, I hope that you are wrong about the scuba divers, but I do recognize that it will be a difficult battle to change the status quo. But then again, look at all the resistance freedivers initially had to monofins, and now they are common and often touted as the only way to go.

Also, the DOL-Fin HP is NOT really uncomfortable like many other monofins currently available. It is, in fact, far more comfortable than any scuba fin that I have ever used, and it maneuvers quite well for me on any open water dive I have done with it (and even some not-so-open water dives as well).

The bottom line is that my recent scuba dives have been more enjoyable with the DOL-Fin than they could possibly have been with my old scuba fins. If this message can get out to others, I'm hopeful that it could catch on with a small faction within the diving community and evolve into its own subculture (similar to snowboarders within the skiing community). I also think it could be an excellent segue for many scuba divers to find the path to freediving.
 
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Reactions: Kars
Yes I hope I am wrong too REVAN because the DOL-Fin looks great. Obviously I am sure some will be curious and try it out but at least here in the UK with dry suits on etc I am not sure it'll catch on very easily. But I can see your point about having a smaller fraction of the diving community that use it - it does look cooler than scuba fins too ;-) really hope I get the chance to give it a try at some point....
 
... but at least here in the UK with dry suits on etc I am not sure it'll catch on very easily....

I use the DOL-Fin with my dry suit! It works great. I just slip a larger set of binding straps into the DOL-Fin's base-plate to accommodate the larger shoe size of the dry suit. It takes 2 minutes.
 
After seeing that video, and Eric's description of proper technique development, I would think the DOL-Fin would also be better for people who lack enough spinal flexibility to performs a good monofin stroke. If a person's spine is too old/degenerative, or they have had spinal surgery etc. resulting in a stiff spine, they resort more to knee flexing with a regular monofin which doesn't work as well. With the DOL-Fin, more of the range of motion can come from ankle flexibility and less from spine. This might give some people a way to swim effectively with a DOL-Fin monofin even though they cannot swim well with a conventional monofin.
 
I am Ron’s dad so factor that into the following comments. That said I would like to comment to a prior post that says “I will be really AMAZED the day I see a scuba diver (who is not also a free diver) use a monofin. ”.

First it is necessary to define a “free diver” as most anyone who is a “real” swimmer has done a least some free diving. Second, if you will review the history of this thread you will find that the original DOL-Fin was developed as a Scuba fin. Ron and I have made commercial boat dives in both Hawaii and the Cayman Islands and we were convinced that we had the best equipment on the boat. After the dive, many in the group agreed.

Although there is some learning of new technique this is not extensive for a recreational diver. It is only the competition diver who needs to have the ultimate efficiency and confidence with his equipment that needs to have a dedicated training program. The average diver will most likely find the improved performance he seeks within the first day or so of use.

I do not consider myself a “free diver” and Ron was not one either when we dove with the SCUBA groups. We did find it interesting however to free dive from shore and swim with the SCUBA customers from the dive boat on their 80 foot dives. I never imagined that I could do those things and I know that I could not have done it without Ron’s DOL-Fin. We also went through the hole on the Maui dive with all the other SCUBies to their amazement. As Ron has said in the past, “If you can’t get through with a DOL-Fin, most divers do not want to go through without one.” I agree but we are not cave divers either, or at least not any more.

As for the silting, in my opinion, the DOL-Fin used properly does less than Bi-Fins to stir up the waters (because it has a higher efficiency and a shorter length) and the plastic wing tips designed to protect the pools and surroundings are effective.

In closing I will say that the DOL-Fin is different and it is not for everyone but if your buddy has one, you will not want to dive with him without one as he will do too many things that you can not do and you will not be able to keep up with him in many respects. Whenever Ron and I dove together with only one DOL-Fin to share it was always my turn after about 20 minutes.


A Proud Dad who needs to say "Prepare to be ammazed."
 
That would be my comment then Grant I certainly personally love the idea of the DOL-Fin and would also love to try it one day! I was just saying that there will be some difficulties in widespread adoption of the DOL-fin as the de-facto equipment for SCUBA, in the same way that for example the monofin is not the fin of choice for spearos. I am only going by my limited experience with a monofin but he DOL-fin might be a lot easier to learn. There is obviously the added cost..
Anyway I certainly hope it catches on and best of luck - I will mention again that I would love to try one given the chance as you guys have done a great job!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
I recently discovered that my email service's filter has been diverting some messages from potential customers looking for information on DOL-Fin products to the junk folder. I was unaware this was happening and don't know how many messages may have been missed. :head

I apologize to anyone who has tried to contact me about DOL-Fin monofins by email who may have been ignored. It was not intentional, and I am taking measures to see that it does not continue this way in the future.

Ron Smith
 
Revan i'm kind of on the same boat as the rest of us here, the one that thinks that monos and scubies don't really mix.
i actually don't think that it's an issue of efficiency or practicality of the Dolfin.
it's just that scuba and freediving have a very different mind set and that scuba divers won't normally see any reason what so ever to use a mono.
like the rest, i hope i'm completely wrong though and wish that at some point in time it becomes a common site among scubies.
on the other hand, i do think that a potential market that is much greater than freediving will ever be, is open water swimming.
since the 2008 Olympics when it became an official sport, it's growing in leaps and bounds. check out this new mag h2openmagazin.com or this site dailynewsofopenwaterswimming.com to get a little idea.
i think that open water swimming using a Dolfin would be a great complement to regular open water swimming and a very compatible sister discipline.
 
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