I have been looking into putting together a course in Texas for intermediate freedivers and have contacted both schools and they are willing to help me bring it to Texas. I was wondering if anyone has a preference or some insight on the differences and which is better.
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F.I.T. vs. Performance Freediving
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Thread Status: Hello
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Seeing as how both organizations have world record holders and a proven track record, you really can't go wrong with either choice.
Martin obviously used to work for Performance Freediving, before he started FIT, so you can be assured that you'll be getting the same great fundamentals with either course as well.
I just took an intermediate course with Performance Freediving and i thought it was exceptional; I vastly improved my own technique and achieved significantly deeper/longer personal bests because of PFI training.
:thankyou
Mandy-Rae and Kirk are great coaches & instructors and I plan on taking their advanced course.
good luck with your texas clinic.
cheers,
kp
Martin obviously used to work for Performance Freediving, before he started FIT, so you can be assured that you'll be getting the same great fundamentals with either course as well.
I just took an intermediate course with Performance Freediving and i thought it was exceptional; I vastly improved my own technique and achieved significantly deeper/longer personal bests because of PFI training.
:thankyou
Mandy-Rae and Kirk are great coaches & instructors and I plan on taking their advanced course.
good luck with your texas clinic.
cheers,
kp
I think both would be a good idea, and agree with the previous poster to check out the other thread concerning this issue. My hubby and I took the FIT Level II course, loved it so much we returned a month later for some practice sessions, and are already signed up for Level III. I'm a technical diver by trade, and hated the very idea of diving with no tank. Now I'm a complete freediving fanatic. Learning from the pros is the best way to understand the physiological aspects, as well as the safety protcols. My opinion about company may be biased, but FIT changed my (and my hubby's) life forever!
--Billie
--Billie
I've taken Intermediate and Advanced with PFI, and Level 2 with DiveFIT (mainly just for some more ocean/depth training), and I can attest that they're both GREAT schools, and you won't have better instructors for freediving other than two world champions and a world renowned freediving coach/instructor! Kirk, Mandy (PFI), and Martin (FIT) are all extremely helpful and knowledgeable, and genuinely care about their students.
Todd
Todd
I did the PFI class back when Martin first started teaching with them and before they had separate levels. I also looked into running a course like that in Wisconsin. While everyone involved is a great diver/instructor/person I found a huge difference int he number of students needed to run a course.
FIT required just 4 students for an advanced Monofin course, and more like 6-8 for the standard level II class. PFI required 16 students to be paid in full. I also looked into having Aharon Solomons come up and teach a monofin course while he was in the States. He needed 4 students for a class like that. In the end I couldn't even get the 4 students together when I tried to run it. :head
See how many people you have interested and then go from there. I ended up driving to Florida to take the course because there was little, to no, local interest.
Either way you will need a pool and a body of water- either swim-able or boat-able, to reach the depths you're going to be hitting- at least 100'.
Good luck no matter which way you go- because they're all great.
Jon
FIT required just 4 students for an advanced Monofin course, and more like 6-8 for the standard level II class. PFI required 16 students to be paid in full. I also looked into having Aharon Solomons come up and teach a monofin course while he was in the States. He needed 4 students for a class like that. In the end I couldn't even get the 4 students together when I tried to run it. :head
See how many people you have interested and then go from there. I ended up driving to Florida to take the course because there was little, to no, local interest.
Either way you will need a pool and a body of water- either swim-able or boat-able, to reach the depths you're going to be hitting- at least 100'.
Good luck no matter which way you go- because they're all great.
Jon
I have taken both classes FIT Intermediate in Ft Lauderdale Apr/May 2008 and PFI Advanced in Kona,Hawaii Aug 2008 Let me be the first to say that in my opinion PFI is
SUPERIOR compared imagine being taught by the people who defined training in freediving compared to someone who copied that system and went of on his own.The
issues and problems I had with FIT are to numerous and unbelieveable to list but if you need to know pm me.All the Best in Diving DeeDee
SUPERIOR compared imagine being taught by the people who defined training in freediving compared to someone who copied that system and went of on his own.The
issues and problems I had with FIT are to numerous and unbelieveable to list but if you need to know pm me.All the Best in Diving DeeDee
Wow. I'm very sorry you had such a terrible experience with the FIT course. Let me say that taking the FIT LII course last year honestly changed the lives of my husband and myself. We just returned form LIII, and have adopted an entirely different (better) style of exercise and training. We are healthier, happier, and have achieved personal bests on a regular basis. As a freediving skeptic, I entered the LII course with no expectations whatsoever. Since then, I am a freediving fanatic. My diet has changed, I am a bit better able to handle stress, and now my two children are as into freediving as mommy and daddy are. Anyway, again, it sucks that your experience was as disappointing as you indicate. But for others reading these posts, please remember that FIT has affected many people as positively radically as it has affected my husband and me.
That being said, I'm quite sure that PFI was wonderful. I hope you, too, had the time of your life learning the intricacies of freediving.
Warm regards,
Billie
That being said, I'm quite sure that PFI was wonderful. I hope you, too, had the time of your life learning the intricacies of freediving.
Warm regards,
Billie
I'm sorry to hear that you had unbelievable issues with FIT. I can't personally speak for PFI, I have had good friends go through their course and all with good reviews. But I have even more good friends take FIT courses and I have never heard a single derogatory word from them. Only praises on how well the course is taught and how much individual attention they received. I mean no disrespect, but maybe you were in a bad place personally/emotionally the weekend of your FIT course. It might also be hard to compare an intermediate course with an advanced course. We take the intermediate course with little or no knowledge of freediving and that might make us nervous or even a little defensive about our inabilities. We go home and practice, sign up for the advanced course, and feel connected with the instructors and other students as soon as we walk in the door. Anyway, that is my 2cents. I personally would not deter anyone from taking any freediving course.
Dive safe,
Tony
Dive safe,
Tony
I, too, am sorry to hear that someone had so many issues during a FIT course, especially since I was assisting during the course in question! I have nothing but great things to say about FIT (and PFI, as well), they're always very welcoming to me every time I head down to FL (in fact, next week I'll be heading down to help out with the Gulfstream Invitational. One of my roles is the on-scene corespondent, so look for my full report here on DeeperBlue after the event!). That being said, not everyone is going to have a "perfect" class; things can and do go wrong (I'm living PROOF of that), it's just the nature of this beast that we call freediving.
Todd
Todd
I've taken FIT Level II and Level III, I have not taken PFI's class. Maybe I'm bias? But to say it as you have that he copied their course and went out on his own, not real fair nor accurate. I'm guessing that Martin was involved in some of the PFI curriculum development as well.
Your post put an alarmist tone, like FIT is unsafe and put your life in danger, without stating any evidence. It comes off more like you had some minor issues that made you dis-satisfied. If the numerous and unbelievable facts are true, then there should be no harm in stating them publically. But to make a blanket statement without someone from FIT to have a chance to publically state there side seems to be unfair as well.
Did you address your concerns with FIT at the time and give them a chance to solve the concerns?
EDIT: Also I'm curious what happened after the course that changed your feelings of the course? I was doing a search out of curiosity, to see if anyone else had issues and I found: http://forums.deeperblue.com/introductions-greets/77717-hi-everyone.html#post712395
Did PFI state in their course that FIT stole from them? I do not know the situation of the split with Martin and PFI. FIT does not talk about it and I never asked. My "concern" with your viewpoint is that you developed a more personal bond with PFI and you have aligned more with them. You seemed to insinuate that Martin stole their couse and started his own school. This is not a fair asumption. Martin teaches his methods and theories and beliefs of freediving, many of those theories are shared by PFI because they are common theories, Martin was a big part of PFI, and he learned things from the rest of PFI while there.
I have only dealt with Mandy to buy my WaterWay fin and she was very nice and helpful. If I had a chance to take a course with her I would.
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Martin was in Partnership with Kirk & Mandy, He had great ideas and wanted to IMPROVE the current training they do. They weren't in agreement with everything he wanted to do, So they went their seperate ways and Martin created F.I.T. Both have World Class Freedivers as instructors- Both are a Great group of people. It would of been foolish of Martin to "settle" and stay with PFI. I recommend BOTH groups to people- no body can go wrong with taking a freediving class. BUT - I personally would choose to be trained by a Freediver who has many WORLD RECORDS and he's a Great Guy, not to mention the F.I.T. Staff is outstanding - I would of paid double to take that class. Also..........Just my 2 cents.
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I can say good things about FIT also. sorry you had a bad session. keep trying!
This may all be seen as ganging up to protect FIT, but some of us see the fit staff as more than just instructors. They are our friends. Even if we only get to see them once a year, they treat us like we have known them out entire lives. So some of us take it a little more personal. Sorry if we seem defensive, but we are, we are proud.
First of all,if you read my post you will clearly read 'it is my OPINION' just that I leave the decision to those who want more info it is there.I am not aligned or friends with or connected in any way with PFI it is a matter of me paying for training and recieving high
caliber training.I have been a PADI instructor since 1991 and I have been trained by both good and bad instructors.like a good or bad meal I know which one leaves a bad taste in your mouth.Furthermore I at no time stated that FIT was unsafe or endangers their students.PFI never said that Martin stole their course materials nor did I.What my
post say's is that he copied the system meaning that if someone says that they are leaving a company because of differences then they usually create a new template to distinguise themselves apart from the systems they are leaving behind.it's like
working for a company like Sears as an engineer developing a product then complain that the company took advantage of your talents when they profit from said product.
The reason I did not laundry list my problems with FIT was because it is not your business! If you want to know why to make a valid decision then I discuss it with those involved If you take a PFI course then you will see the difference and you will understand my position.I have made more attempts than is reasonable to resolve my problems and both Martin and Paul have decided to stop answering my phone calls and e-mails.That being said I have chosen to offer MY OPINION not gospel,to the forums in order that those seeking instruction can make an informed choice.
In closing,many times those we seek to love and support are in fact their own worst enemies and blinded by our feelings we justify dysfunctional behavior and choose not to see what is in front of our eyes,carefully study htat which you defend and you may see the shine may wear off All the Best-I / We are not all perfect DeeDee
caliber training.I have been a PADI instructor since 1991 and I have been trained by both good and bad instructors.like a good or bad meal I know which one leaves a bad taste in your mouth.Furthermore I at no time stated that FIT was unsafe or endangers their students.PFI never said that Martin stole their course materials nor did I.What my
post say's is that he copied the system meaning that if someone says that they are leaving a company because of differences then they usually create a new template to distinguise themselves apart from the systems they are leaving behind.it's like
working for a company like Sears as an engineer developing a product then complain that the company took advantage of your talents when they profit from said product.
The reason I did not laundry list my problems with FIT was because it is not your business! If you want to know why to make a valid decision then I discuss it with those involved If you take a PFI course then you will see the difference and you will understand my position.I have made more attempts than is reasonable to resolve my problems and both Martin and Paul have decided to stop answering my phone calls and e-mails.That being said I have chosen to offer MY OPINION not gospel,to the forums in order that those seeking instruction can make an informed choice.
In closing,many times those we seek to love and support are in fact their own worst enemies and blinded by our feelings we justify dysfunctional behavior and choose not to see what is in front of our eyes,carefully study htat which you defend and you may see the shine may wear off All the Best-I / We are not all perfect DeeDee
*I'm not going to go soft on this post, I'll try not to be rude, if I am, someone let me know I will edit*
First, you got them to answer e-mails and phone calls? I usually get answers, but they are busy, busy people. I get replies, they are just a little delayed, but I know sometimes I ask when they have a class going and they do have lives and all. Even Mandy took a day or two when I asked about my mono fin.
In my Level III course I had bad dives and beat myself up. I did better in Level II than III. It wasn't the instructor that didn't do their job. It was me who was unable to do what I wanted. Not everyone can get to 150', some people dive more than others and just have the right physiology to do it faster. I wish I had as much time with Martin in my level III course as I did in my Level II course, but there were 3 times as many people in the level III. Just because I struggled does not mean I deserve more time with them, other people paid the same amount I did to learn from these fine instructors. Level II they give you the information you may or may not already know and they give you the formula to put it all together. Not everyone has the right body chemistry when they enter the class. It takes time, but you have the tools to change that and improve yourself.
You still have not provided us with any proof. You say it is not my business, but in your first post that I could PM you and you would tell me. Sounds like you know it's a petty excuse or you wanted attention. Well, you got it. Your posts are your opinion, but you are not backing your opinion with anything solid. It's easier to blame the instructor than yourself.
As far as Martin taken his knowledge and teaching at his own school....it does not compare to some engineer at Sears. There is only so much science behind freediving. Martin can not change the laws of Physics and Physiology. Again I don't know the reason for the split, but use a little logic and here is what I get. Martin is a World record freediver, he is working for PFI who is a husband and wife team. Most people like to advance and get as far as possible in their chosen field. Where was there for Martin to go? It would be like a great architect working for Frank Lloyd Wright. Everything you design gets Mr Wrights name on it, no matter how great. Eventually you want to be recognised for your own abilities, not doing it to build someone else's reputation. I work at a dive shop that teaches PADI and NAUI scuba courses. You know what the difference is? NAUI added a little more on rescue technique for OW students and they allow you to teach the skills in whatever order you find works best. The skills and technique are the same. Slight difference in requirements maybe, but both have the same end result. Cave course fraction from each other all the time only to have minor differences in teaching afterwards. Why would that be? Because the end goal is the same. It's freediving, not a box of Lego's and build what you want.
Everything in my posts is speculation. The gut feeling I get from reading your posts. I do not know you or anything about you. The read I get, you think you deserved time and attention than others in the class. That your not being honest with yourself. I'm sorry you fell cheated in some way, but it sounds like you had a good foundation going into PFI's course and did well there. Wish I could afford a FIT course in Florida then a trip to HI and a PFI course in Kona, poor me, life is too harsh.
I'm done, my views are clear. I'd dive with FIT or PFI if I had the chance. People are willing to stand up for FIT and I'm certain the same goes for PFI students. That says a lot about both courses. Good day mam.
First, you got them to answer e-mails and phone calls? I usually get answers, but they are busy, busy people. I get replies, they are just a little delayed, but I know sometimes I ask when they have a class going and they do have lives and all. Even Mandy took a day or two when I asked about my mono fin.
In my Level III course I had bad dives and beat myself up. I did better in Level II than III. It wasn't the instructor that didn't do their job. It was me who was unable to do what I wanted. Not everyone can get to 150', some people dive more than others and just have the right physiology to do it faster. I wish I had as much time with Martin in my level III course as I did in my Level II course, but there were 3 times as many people in the level III. Just because I struggled does not mean I deserve more time with them, other people paid the same amount I did to learn from these fine instructors. Level II they give you the information you may or may not already know and they give you the formula to put it all together. Not everyone has the right body chemistry when they enter the class. It takes time, but you have the tools to change that and improve yourself.
You still have not provided us with any proof. You say it is not my business, but in your first post that I could PM you and you would tell me. Sounds like you know it's a petty excuse or you wanted attention. Well, you got it. Your posts are your opinion, but you are not backing your opinion with anything solid. It's easier to blame the instructor than yourself.
As far as Martin taken his knowledge and teaching at his own school....it does not compare to some engineer at Sears. There is only so much science behind freediving. Martin can not change the laws of Physics and Physiology. Again I don't know the reason for the split, but use a little logic and here is what I get. Martin is a World record freediver, he is working for PFI who is a husband and wife team. Most people like to advance and get as far as possible in their chosen field. Where was there for Martin to go? It would be like a great architect working for Frank Lloyd Wright. Everything you design gets Mr Wrights name on it, no matter how great. Eventually you want to be recognised for your own abilities, not doing it to build someone else's reputation. I work at a dive shop that teaches PADI and NAUI scuba courses. You know what the difference is? NAUI added a little more on rescue technique for OW students and they allow you to teach the skills in whatever order you find works best. The skills and technique are the same. Slight difference in requirements maybe, but both have the same end result. Cave course fraction from each other all the time only to have minor differences in teaching afterwards. Why would that be? Because the end goal is the same. It's freediving, not a box of Lego's and build what you want.
Everything in my posts is speculation. The gut feeling I get from reading your posts. I do not know you or anything about you. The read I get, you think you deserved time and attention than others in the class. That your not being honest with yourself. I'm sorry you fell cheated in some way, but it sounds like you had a good foundation going into PFI's course and did well there. Wish I could afford a FIT course in Florida then a trip to HI and a PFI course in Kona, poor me, life is too harsh.
Sometimes one rubs to hard and wears the shine off themselves. See them for what they are, not what you think they should be.
I'm done, my views are clear. I'd dive with FIT or PFI if I had the chance. People are willing to stand up for FIT and I'm certain the same goes for PFI students. That says a lot about both courses. Good day mam.
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There was a certain inevitability about this argument that someone would bite just by reading the original question.
I will settle it once and for all for you....... I will take both courses and write an independant review for you..... expenses paid of course
I must admit i do have a bias though... i like all freedivers
xx
I will settle it once and for all for you....... I will take both courses and write an independant review for you..... expenses paid of course
I must admit i do have a bias though... i like all freedivers
xx
Il Diver FIT stopped returning my calls and e-mails seeking resolution of our problems 1 1/2 to 2 months ago. And as a business consultant and life coach I tell my clients if you can't handle your business hire someone or get out because in the end it's the client who suffers.Second you never pm'd me with a request for info to compare classes it seems you are more interested to gossip and place judgement.Third I never said I didn't benefit from FIT ,I indeed got some good info,but would not and will not endorse,support,or refer
anyone to a system that cannot handle problems they in fact generate professionally.
It is not how you handle easy situations,but how you handle difficult situations.In your post you say you work at a dive shop but you do not state that you are an instructor?
I have been a PADI instructor since 1991 and have been taught by great and not so great instructors and have had experience working on a number of great dive boats so I in fact know good and bad teaching and have always made sure every student 'got it' not make excuses why not to take more time when time is needed,I never asked for more than anyone just equal.And as any good instructor knows not every student is the same,some are better at skills than others so at the end of the day if someone is behind or needs attention they paid for it and it is the duty of the instructor in the interest of safety and
professionallism to provide it PFI does!!! My problems with FIT were centered around continuing training and how an issue was handled improperly.Logically(as you would say)
by not solving their self generated problem not only did FIT lose the income from my taking extended training but they have made it impossible to refer friends and clients to them not the brightest business move.It is often said with one hand a person can destroy
what the other hand is trying to build.It is one thing to have a world record but I dont'
know any landlords who accept world records toward rent.so in the end if you decide to
run a business and don't know how TAKE A CLASS.Hollywood is littered with stars who have either themselves or through a manager,agent,or lawyer had their finances sucked
dry.
In closing don't be jealous that I have earned the livelihood to budget training for my passion but look at how bad you want things in your life and make it happen,second job,
loan from family or friends.work out a payment plan WHATEVER it takes and by all means learn more about me and what i do before you place judgement on me or anyone else.LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT,I HAVE WHAT I WANT DO YOU? Good Luck DeeDee
anyone to a system that cannot handle problems they in fact generate professionally.
It is not how you handle easy situations,but how you handle difficult situations.In your post you say you work at a dive shop but you do not state that you are an instructor?
I have been a PADI instructor since 1991 and have been taught by great and not so great instructors and have had experience working on a number of great dive boats so I in fact know good and bad teaching and have always made sure every student 'got it' not make excuses why not to take more time when time is needed,I never asked for more than anyone just equal.And as any good instructor knows not every student is the same,some are better at skills than others so at the end of the day if someone is behind or needs attention they paid for it and it is the duty of the instructor in the interest of safety and
professionallism to provide it PFI does!!! My problems with FIT were centered around continuing training and how an issue was handled improperly.Logically(as you would say)
by not solving their self generated problem not only did FIT lose the income from my taking extended training but they have made it impossible to refer friends and clients to them not the brightest business move.It is often said with one hand a person can destroy
what the other hand is trying to build.It is one thing to have a world record but I dont'
know any landlords who accept world records toward rent.so in the end if you decide to
run a business and don't know how TAKE A CLASS.Hollywood is littered with stars who have either themselves or through a manager,agent,or lawyer had their finances sucked
dry.
In closing don't be jealous that I have earned the livelihood to budget training for my passion but look at how bad you want things in your life and make it happen,second job,
loan from family or friends.work out a payment plan WHATEVER it takes and by all means learn more about me and what i do before you place judgement on me or anyone else.LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT,I HAVE WHAT I WANT DO YOU? Good Luck DeeDee