Facial hair and leaky mask - problem?

[_Aaron_]

I'm new to freediving and like many others have some issues equalizing. I was a competive swimmer from age 6, so confidence and comfort in the water is not much of an issue. However, I wonder if my leaky mask is giving me issues on top of my inexperience.

I'm able to control the muscles around my e tubes and get popping noises/equalization on dry land and sometimes in the water(BTV?). I've been using valsalva as the primary means to equalize until I learn to use the frenzel technique.

I don't really feel much need to go further than 10-15m, but maybe as I get better that will change. The problem is that I dive to only 3-5 meters at this time ; after a couple dives I'm stuffed, and pain starts to set in on subsequent dives until I can't even make 2 meters without pain. between dives I generally have to blow the snot and seawater out of my nose to keep my sinuses clear. Am I going to have to shave off my goatee To get past this problem? Does anyone else think it might be causing some of my problem?
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[harbour seal]

hello aaron,

you can try shaving the very top part of your moustache, which really helps with mask leakage issues. specifically, the area just under your nose, approx 7mm or 1/3" worth (enough to provide a good seal but still remain moustachioed/goateed).

i too sport a face of fur and have no mask issues as long as i remember to shave the top of the ol' stache, otherwise it can be a pain.

however, it sounds like you are not able to equalize at all if you are getting pain at 2-3 metres. when you get pain you should always stop, as you can very easily injure yourself.

in my own experience, while head down i was never able to equalize my right ear using valsalva, even at 2-3m, but using frenzel it is no problem. i managed to teach myself through reading/studying eric fattah's equalizing document and various posts hear on deeperblue---combined with many hours of practice, practice, practice with a balloon at home then over many sessions in the deep end of the pool.

Liquivision : Freediving : equalizing

you could have more challenging ears when head-down, like i did. learning the frenzel will certainly make equalizing much easier.

cheers fellow fuzz face,
sean
vancouver, bc

 

[_Aaron_]

Dang, you were supposed to tell me that shaving would eliminate a lot of my issues!
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[The Killer's me]

Hi Aron,

you can always keep your goatie and freedive. Rub some Vaseline on the top part of your moustache and try not to take off the mask several times during your dive.

Work on the Frenzel technique and try to get rid of Valsalve if you really want to enjoy freediving.

your system is gonna suffer for years until it finally adapts...

Until then...dive safe

 

[harbour seal]

Dang, you were supposed to tell me that shaving would eliminate a lot of my issues!
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hey , i'm an optimist---why not give it a shot!
you will be more hydrodynamic at least, although possibly somewhat deaf.

also, i just remembered this video by a doctor that treats a lot of diving-related ear issues. the talk includes different types of injuries, and covers various methods of equalization.

at one point it even shows him doing the frenzel (i seem to recall he also calls it the throat piston). watch what his throat is doing to change the volume of the throat air-space, which applies the pressure to the tubes in order to equalize. this so called throat piston is one piece of the puzzle (actually seeing someone do it allowed me to figure it out using a mirror); however, another key aspect of the frenzel involves controlling your soft palate---see fattah doc.


The Diver's Ear: Under Pressure---UW Physicians - Dr. Edmond Kay
Doc's Diving Medicine Home Page





(it is cut into 6 parts on youtube---this is part 1 of 6)



good luck,
sean

 

[_Aaron_]

In other threads on the forum there are links to the doctor's home page. It was a useful piece of info. I think frenzel is working for me on dryland, now I just need to get into some water and try it out. Thanks to everyone and the motivation. Praticing with the balloon was interesting since I could get a neutral position with my soft palate continue breathing while the balloon was also deflating through my nose through. I think the balloon helped me most.
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[harbour seal]

sweet, looks like you are making progress.

here are a couple proof of concepts for you:

1 - frenzel test- dry: hold your hand on your diaphragm while you do the frenzel and pop your ears --- you should not feel any diaphragmatic or abdominal tensing or contraction at all.

2 - frenzel test - wet (in deep end of pool):
- forcefully exhale all your air at the surface (called "negatives"), then sink head down, now equalize
- i do negatives every time i am in the pool as it simulates equalizing at depth quite well (i.e., i practice mouth-fill and equalizing with very negative lungs in a 5.5m deep pool with forceful exhale(s), many negative packs and head-down on bottom).

- warning - negatives + squeeze : you can hurt yourself doing negatives (i.e., lung squeeze/pulmonary edema), even in 2-3m, so go slow with the depth and the amount you exhale, and be sure to hold on to the side of the pool to start so you don't descend too fast/deep. once again, if you feel pain or discomfort in your chest/ears stop to avoid long term injury. the first time i tried this it felt like elephants were standing on my chest; however, soon your chest walls will adapt and it becomes much easier after a few weeks, then you can try less and less air in your lungs as your progress (e.g., after forceful exhale(s) of all your air you can try adding negative packs). go slow!

- warning - negatives + blackout : with negatives your time to hypoxia will be very short. in addition, if you also swim after forcefully exhaling you will very quickly get hypoxic, and can easily push to BO (no early warning urge to breathe like on inhale as you have almost no CO2 in your lungs---if you get an urge to breathe before blackout it will be due to extreme hypoxia). make sure you have a buddy watching you who knows BTT and take it slow. for me, i can so easily push to samba with negatives that i need to very actively guard against going too far or too long.

good luck,
sean
vancouver, bc

 

[Simos]

It's probably got to do with relaxation (or lack of it). Having said that I've found it impossible to equalise my right ear using valsava when inverted.

I usually just do btv (handsfree); works fine until ~15m for me, then I need to start some kind of frenzel (still working on that). My problem is that while handsfree is great, I lose some air...
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[harbour seal]

It's probably got to do with relaxation (or lack of it). Having said that I've found it impossible to equalise my right ear using valsava when inverted.

I usually just do btv (handsfree); works fine until ~15m for me, then I need to start some kind of frenzel (still working on that). My problem is that while handsfree is great, I lose some air...
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same here, my right ear was impossible using valsalva when head-down.

btv always sounds awesome---i would love to have both hands free! i have started trying it in the pool but so far not much success.

once you get it, the frenzel rules and i have never had an issue with equalizing, although i only dive 25m or less and the fattah mouth-fill hasn't been an issue (yet); however, i do use the so called exhale, or frc style of diving so i have less air with which to work.

cheers,
sean

 

[Simos]

Sean - btv is awesome indeed. Keep practising and you'll get it; it takes time - you need to practice dry several times every day to train the muscles involved and when in the water try experimenting with different movements of the head and jaw. At first I had to look down and stretch my neck to do it but now I can keep my head neutral. I think I do use some 'frenzel-like' action too when doing btv (I push with my throat, not Tongue) which helps...
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[harbour seal]

simos
thanks for the btv advice and inspiration!

...one amendment from above is that i only dive frc these days - 25m or less, which gives much less air to equalize with, but so far frenzel still works great for me.

cheers,
sean

 

[Dannyk]

Here is the link to Dr. Kay's website

Here is a website that is very good at teaching the Frenzel Technique.

 

[Simos]

Hey Sean - I want to try frc but I don't think I'm ready yet.. I know I'll find equalisation hard too... For me Btv is great in particular for shallow dives eg less than 10m, say you see something at the reef below and want to take a photo etc - but the truth is that it's not reliable enough and gets hard as you go deeper... Frenzel is definitely the way forward - got to put the time in to learn it properly
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[Mark Lamont]

Just a thought...........Your mask may not be right for you facial hair or not. Dry test it by putting your mask lightly against your face and inhale slightly through your nose.
If it doesn't stick without the mask straps, you should continue shopping. Face configurations are so different that not all masks fit the same face. I've had facial hair long and short and not. I've tried shaving very close to my nose in an upward direction to get as close as possible with electrics and blades. The bottom line for me was always the mask but then that is just a thought.
There may be a name that I'm not familiar with for equalizing by the slight movement of one's jaw side to side to clear. It requires practice and must be done during the total decent and not wait for pressure to build in your inner ear.
Don't use your fingers to hold your nose and pressure your ear drums as it may cause over pressure and stretching of your eardrum. That may ruin a full day of diving fun.
I just went to the website on frenzel ................try moving your jaw just slightly side to side. It's the less complicated way.

 

[_Aaron_]

Well, the suction test worked when I purchased the mask. However the glass touches my brow and the seal hurts my forehead. That means I would like to get a new mask anyway.
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[Mark Lamont]

Seems like that is the best all around solution. Shaving the mustache is the next. Petroleum around rubber products seems to me the worst.
Ask the salesman at the dive shop if you can bring it back if it leaks for you. That show you what kind of service after sale you get or are going to get.

 

[_Aaron_]

Thanks to everyone on deeperblue! Seems like the Frenzel technique works for me too. It still takes quite a bit of my concentration, which can be difficult while trying to learn how to hint at the same time.

Anyway. I shaved off my goatee and met up with Monchan for some hunting. I had no pain, and at some point started to get some congestion. I took a small break to clear my sinus and afterward I could still dive using the frenzel. I'm satisfied, and will keep practicing until it's second nature.
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