fainting on dry land

[Jeroen simons]

Dear readers,

I have a bit of a situation. I am freediving quite intensive since 4 months now. When I started last November I was an advanced newbie so to Say.

Everything went fine and I progressed quite fast and started diving deeper. But somewhere along the way i had two samba 's just by standing up (On land). Both were in very hot conditions and in both cases I remember being at least OK hydrated.

very weird but slowly I forgot about it since that was it. In the water I always felt perfectly fine.

Untill last week... I made a (very) long dive and when I reached the surface I had a samba. Perfectly explainable since this dive time I had never done before and I already made a few exhausting dives before that. Plus I was already quite fatiqued wich I didn't realise in the water that moment.

first samba ever but nothing too extreme. got out of the water en felt ok. I ate and drunk well and went home.

When I came home I suddenly fainted twice a while after standing up. The second time smashing the toilet into 10 pieces and waking up in a fountain, wich was quite a scene!!

The next 11 days I rested and i felt a bit tired sometimes but overall good. I started looking back and noticed I had many head rushes since I came in Indonesia and started freediving.

Very conservative and easy going I trained again 2 days ago and felt fine in the water. But after coming home again I had a heavy head rush and very small Samba.

What's going on? does anyone recognise these symptoms? And does anyone know the reason or know what to do to fix this problem?

If you have a clue please reply. Thanks a million

Jerome

 

[kwtony]

Wow, thats quite the scare. What did your doctor tell you?

 

[MarcinB]

Did similar things ever happen before you started to freedive?

 

[Lehmann108]

You need to see a neurologist for an examination. This is unusual. "Spontaneous" sambas on dry land and fainting are outside of normal health limits. Please get checked out!

 

[Bill McIntyre]

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/orthostatic-hypotension/basics/definition/con-20031255

 

[Jeroen simons]

Did similar things ever happen before you started to freedive?

No not at all

 

[MarcinB]

When it happens again measure your blood pressure and heart rate. You can also try to palpate your pulse to check whether it is regular. If blood pressure is low, heart rate elevated and pulse irregular it is most likely atrial fibrillation. In some people it is triggered by apnea. If it happens, the atria are not able to pump blood which impairs filling of the ventricles. As a result the heart pumps less blood than normally. Standing up makes things worse because it induces further decrease in blood pressure which may result in transient brain ischemia and loss of consciousness. Hot climate also makes it more likely to happen. Anyway, visiting your doctor is definitely a good idea.

 

[NoFair]

I sometimes get it when blood pressure is low and I stand up (never had it in the water or when breath holding). It happens easier if I've been dehydrated. If you learn to recognize the signs you have time to crouch/sit or lie down to avoid passing out or having a samba. Since you never had anything before you started freediving I'd get checked out by a medical professional..

 

[Jeroen simons]

Hey MarcinB and nofair! Thanks this is some helpful info. Problem is im on Bali and the health care seems to lack a bit reliable specialists. I was in the section hyperbaric chamber in Denpasar but the doctor (diving specialism) didn't give me the feeling she was an expert. The best advise she gave me was take rest and a blood test was not necessary (Got it anyway, looked fine though).

Doesn't seem like atriaL fibrillation but ill take a closer look to my heartbeat.

The cheers jeroen

 

[jpp]

I sometimes get it when blood pressure is low and I stand up (never had it in the water or when breath holding). It happens easier if I've been dehydrated. If you learn to recognize the signs you have time to crouch/sit or lie down to avoid passing out or having a samba. Since you never had anything before you started freediving I'd get checked out by a medical professional..

Hi Marcini having recently suffered from atrial flutter which is similair
to atrial fibrillation, what makes you say this can be brought on by apnea?


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[MarcinB]

I know two freedivers who had episodes of atrial fibrillation triggered by apnea. It was confirmed by the ECG. There is also a thread here on DB where several people described similar problems. Strong activation of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves supplying the heart that occurs when the diving reflex kicks in can induce atrial fibrillation.

 

[MarcinB]

Problem is im on Bali and the health care seems to lack a bit reliable specialists

When it happens again go to the doctor and ask for ECG. Atrial fibrilation causes very characteristic alterations on the ECG. You don't need a specialist to notice them. Even I could do it if I saw your ECG.

 

[jpp]

I'm pretty sure that when I got atrial flutter it was from a chest infection not Apnea.


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[Jeroen simons]

I know two freedivers who had episodes of atrial fibrillation triggered by apnea. It was confirmed by the ECG. There is also a thread here on DB where several people described similar problems. Strong activation of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves supplying the heart that occurs when the diving reflex kicks in can induce atrial fibrillation.

You might be on to something here MarcinB.. via via I ve contacted a specialist in my mother land and he confirms the exact same thing. One thing still doesn't make sense though.

You are saying this artrial fibrillation occurs DURING the dive reflex. But this is actually the time I always feel great.. because of the dive reflex my oxygen supply is higher (and coming up I never feel dizzy or anything at all. Except for that one samba, but there I just stupidly pushed it)

So it seems to me the diving; Apnea ; dive reflex affects me in a good way in the water (like us all).. but when these benefits go away and I go back to land.. that is where the problems happen for me..

Can you explain that by delayed symptoms? Or does is explain this can't be it?

 

[Jeroen simons]

I know two freedivers who had episodes of atrial fibrillation triggered by apnea. It was confirmed by the ECG. There is also a thread here on DB where several people described similar problems. Strong activation of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves supplying the heart that occurs when the diving reflex kicks in can induce atrial fibrillation.

You might be on to something here MarcinB.. via via I ve contacted a specialist in my mother land and he confirms the exact same thing. One thing still doesn't make sense though.

You are saying this artrial fibrillation occurs DURING the dive reflex. But this is actually the time I always feel great.. because of the dive reflex my oxygen supply is higher (and coming up I never feel dizzy or anything at all. Except for that one samba, but there I just stupidly pushed it)

So it seems to me the diving; Apnea ; dive reflex affects me in a good way in the water (like us all).. but when these benefits go away and I go back to land.. that is where the problems happen for me..

Can you explain that by delayed symptoms? Or does is explain this can't be it?

 

[Jeroen simons]

There is also a thread here on DB where several people described similar problems.

Can you please redirect me to this thread?

 

[MarcinB]

Actually there are two threads:
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/atrial-flutter.102461/#post-940258
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/atrial-fibrillation-doing-statics.95761/

Atrial fibrillation can be triggered by the diving reflex, however, if it occurs it may not stop when you start to breath again. It may persist for hours or days. Quite often it doesn't go away on its own and pharmacological treatment is required to stop it.

The fact that you start to notice the symptoms when you are back on land is easy to explain. In water, just like in horizontal position on land, gravity does not induce significant effect on blood circulation. So even if the function of your heart is impaired it may still be able to pump enough blood to your brain while you are still in water. However, when you are out of the water gravity makes it much harder for the blood to get to the brain. In addition, less blood gets to the right ventricle because a large volume accumulates in the veins in your legs. Under these conditions your heart has to work harder. This is why the heart rate is always higher while standing up. This additional burden may be simply too much for your heart. The most critical moment is just after standing up. Even in a completely healthy person it can cause temporal brain ischemia which can manifest as dizziness and/or loss of sight. Hot climate makes things worse because it greatly increases blood flow to the skin.

 

[Jeroen simons]

So yeah. Spot on I have arrhythmias. A post from one of the threadlinks you provided tells the story of hearing very loud noises like a machine gun (or A cave troll banging a drum very loudly). I never thought about this event afterwards but it happened at least twice.

I will go to a doc for some ECG's. And hopefully find out what kind of arrhythmia I have. And find out how this affects my diving.

I feel perfectly fine now. And I did 3 training sessions, just before I found out, without having ANY symptoms.
So i can prob. Still dive I assume?