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First blackout ...

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
Well I had my first wet training session last night ... and first black out. I now appreciate oxygen alot more and also the two guys, Andre and George who recognised the signs of impending doom and promptly flipped me over.

Lessons learnt ?

Always go training with other people - the life guards at the pool would have been scraping me off the bottom by the time they noticed. Oh, and the promise of a beer is always a good incentive for those supposed to save you - my life equals a pint of cider and a pint of lager now.

Know your limits too - I didn't know before but doubt I'll be going for gold again in the near future ! Wet statics are definitely alot different than dry ones. (Apparently I made 2 OK signals that I don't even remember...)

So if there are any other beginners out there getting into statics and so on - find others who are experienced and train with them.

Good luck George and Andre in the UK Salt Free next week - give me a shout when you want your next pint !
Ed
 

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
3,221
278
173
48
Hey Ed
welcome to the club - don't let it freak you out too much. A pint of cider and a point of lager is pretty valuable, I think my first was worth a couple of diet cokes and a packet of crisps!


keep the training up and come to saltFree next year..

oh god did I just commit to doing it again....!

Sam
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
Cheers Sam
Wasn't too freaked out as I was in good hands (literally) but have seen someone nearly drown before and this little episode brought back a few unpleasant memories.

I saw the SaltFree site and it looks like it'll be a fun day - like you say, maybe next year when I have a bit more experience. Good luck.
 

samphire

New Member
May 27, 2004
1
0
0
53
Excuse me...I'm a total newbie...but do I take it that you guys actually hold your breath until you become unconscious?

Why?....How?....
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
3,445
569
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Originally posted by samphire
Excuse me...I'm a total newbie...but do I take it that you guys actually hold your breath until you become unconscious?

Why?....How?....

Yes some do, but the most are not looking for a BO, its mostly due to not knowing ones's body and/or a wrong preperation.

Some people can go BO without any warning (for instance heavy smokers), some because they hyperventilate too much, they don't feel the urge to breathe. Some simply don't know -yet- al the signals the body gives. Some ignore every signal. Some feel obliged to make a certain time, therefor forcing themselfes into a BO.

For me, and I think most freedivers, a BO is definite not something I/they want to do. It can be mentally very heavy, and one should stop training for the day, maybe it's better to stop for a few days. I useally only do max performances a few times in a month. I use them to check my progress, and for selfconfidence for a competition. But I want certainly not a BO nor a "samba" which is a state close to BO were you are not able to fully control your body.

I've had two BO's in my Freediving carreer, one while doing a 112m Dynamic with a monofin. I was about 10-15 sec BO. The other one was a tiny one, of just a second or two, when I tried for a 100m no fins in Belgium. Read the detailed report on my site, www.freeapnea.nlunder Articles -> Huy competition. I went BO because I was to much cooled down and I didn't listen to my body, just like the 112m BO. It's a mental thing for me, wanting to do what I've set my mind on, and the swimming greatly helps to ignore the signs.
Next sunday we have our National Pool championship in the Netherlands, www.waves.nu, Let's see if I can control the hunger better this time. *having incresing competition tension*

Ciao,

Kars.
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
154
0
60
Ed,
Congratulations on your membership to the club!;) Its funny how the ok signals can become so programmed you just do them automatically when tapped. Try to keep those two guys as spotters now that you have them trained. So many spotters get into relaxing and breathing for their upcoming statics and are not aware of how closely they need to be monitoring you.

I tend to relax too much toward the end in wet statics verses dry. In dry my mind is occupied watching the clock, plus it’s just so painful. In wet statics I have to make myself open my eyes toward the end and focus on things, or I just go to sleep.
don
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
Don
Yes it was weird I sort of drifted off I guess - felt like sleep. Yes the other two are good guys - they were off to a competition and I think I threw their training night a bit !

Kars
I didn't realise that body temperature could bring on a BO ? I was shivering in the pool and that's the first time I had tried for a wet static. Normally i do dry ones so am warm and comfortable or am snorkelling/shallow freediving so have a wetsuit.

Samphire
No one wants to BO.
In my case I didn't know my limits and didn't know the signals (apart from the OK one !) so stepped over them briefly - aparently a 4 to 5 sec BO. But yes, I would agree with Kars, it really throws you for a bit and you need to chill for a while. I thought that because I made 5:29 for a dry static I would be fine for "sometime after 4:30" - the only problem with that is that I forgot to stop and come up for air - just drifted off. So for me I'll be thinking more about definite times to stop - like state a 4:30 max or something (we had done one minute breathe up one minute hold, 2:2, 3:3[twice] and then 4:4 followed by a relax period then the max and my BO sometime around 4:45 I guess)
Find good spotters too.
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
3,445
569
203
43
A friend of mine does a coordination game with his fingers at the end of his breathhold, if he misses one he'ill quit without a second thought.

I know people who count contractions, and know how many they can have. I think that may not be accurate, because of the all different influences like water temp, form of the day etc.

Maybe for those who fade away slowly into sleep or bo it's an solution to open your eyes when the darkness is setting in. This way may keep you awake. You can reverse the comming up technique in your mind in the minute before. Follow your heartbeat, feel your limbs for a starting LMC. sjeck your relaxation one more time.

Temperture has a lot of influence, make sure your body is warm. Cold water on your face helps on to kick in the divingreflex very much. A big contrast here helps a lot.

Good safeties are important, sometimes you own your life to them... a tip for training, hold hands al the time, a keen spotter/safety can detect you state pretty well. squeesing is used for signalling.

I often ask my safety to tap me randomly, on their own -schooled- insight. If they tap 2 times, I'll reply 2 times etc, if he taps every 10 I'll awser that. It doesn't matter much to me how many times he taps, as long he does not let it be more then 15 sec in the end, and he is keen on the other signs. Signs like stifness, release of air, shaking, cramping hands etc.

Kars.
 

cebaztian

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2003
827
177
133
STOP

Originally posted by portinfer

Yes it was weird I sort of drifted off I guess - felt like sleep.
.... just drifted off. So for me I'll be thinking more about definite times to stop - like state a 4:30 max or something

I have the same problem.
http://www.fridykning.se/freediving/features/breathhold.html

I wouldnt go for a set "safe" time. Keep on looking for signals on when to stop. Every day is a new challenge. Different shape every day.
 

ramstam

New Member
May 9, 2003
227
11
0
Sounds like there are some pretty calm people out there...
at about 5min I start to want to panic and can barely stay still.
When I do dry statics I end up running around the room for the last ten seconds. My wife calls it blue running.
 

YakDiver

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2004
37
5
98
69
Question :- if someone blacked out on dry land because he/she was trying to see how long he/she could hold there breath, can you still die if you were on your own or would you start to re-breath again when you collapses on the floor
 

sublimished

the white whale
May 2, 2004
50
4
0
I'd like to know that too, what triggers your body to breath again after a blackout? Does a spotter need to incite breathing somehow or is it usually just natural?
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
3,445
569
203
43
Usually Breathhold on land is pretty safe, just be shore you land soft.
After you BO your body starts to try to start the breathing by itself. You'll wakeup having a nice long dream and a unbelieveble PB ;)

The only danger I know of is that just befor BO one would swallow their tong, that would block the airway very firmly.

Zwallowing a tong is very uncommon, so that's way many freedivers train breathhold dry because that can be done safely without a buddy.

Am I correct guys? Or did I forgot something?
 

seagull

New Member
May 11, 2004
33
5
0
an effective way to commit sui cide?

It seems to me, that if you just do a normal static out of water, given that you inhale as much air as you can, that the positive pressure of your lungs would automatically (after BO) cause the exhalation of CO2 saturated air, and you would start to breathe normally, and so would come round pretty quickly. This would mean such a static would be, as Kars says, essentially harmless (provided you don't fall, in BO, onto a slab of granite, or similar).

However, if you exhaled as much air as possible, so that you were significantly below your normal tidal level, and THEN held your breath, then even after BO, the negative pressure of your lungs would keep your tongue/oesophagus firmly closed, and you would die. This, I think, could (hence the deliberate extra 'space' in the title, to avoid search engines turning this up to depressives as a possible, easy, painless su_cide method) be a very quick and easy way to kill yourself. However, I have never been sure about this theory, and OBVIOUSLY didn't want to try it myself:duh
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
I have had many blackouts on dry exhale statics and I always started breathing again!


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

BlueIcarus

New-born freediver
Aug 1, 2003
212
33
0
46
Your brain shuts your conscience (which was 'killing you') down, and from then your body will do anything to stay alive (survival instinct)
I trust my body (although I never had a BO, nor even a samba), but I trust even more eric empirical statements ;)
 
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