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Flopper on the inferior side of the spearshaft

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Tomy Suero

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2007
78
11
98
I do not understand why manufacturer keep making spearshaft with the flopper on the inferior side, having it this way makes it more visible to the fish. What are the advantages, if any, to continue making it this way? Thanks.
 
Reactions: Mr. X
what is the inferior side? top or bottom?
Most euro manufacturers make it on the top (tahitian), to have a more hydrodynamic travel..but sometimes it opens and gets in your line of sight..
america/south africa manugfacturers make it on the bottom (hawaiian) to always guarantee better line of sight
 
Thanks Marwan. If it is on top, it is more hydrodynamic, it will hit the target with more precission and the fish won't be seeing it that much. So personally I think that on top is better, Isn't it?
 
not necessarily. sometimes the flopper has a habit of not falling in line with te shaft when it should, personally i dont mind both, i tend to slightly favor having the flopper on the bottom though, guaranteed line of sight, and in reality i never noticed a difference in the accuracy. personal preference i guess
cheers
 
another thing is that after exiting the fish it's easier to open due to gravity. you can keep it in place with an oring and when it enters the target the oring is left behind and it just opens...
 
Tomy Suero said:
Thanks Marwan. If it is on top, it is more hydrodynamic, it will hit the target with more precission and the fish won't be seeing it that much. So personally I think that on top is better, Isn't it?
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Not if the flopper/barb doesn't open! I originally thought the euro-style better for hydro dynamic but I suspect the downside is an increased likelihood that it will not open (SA barbs have gravity to help open the barb).

That said, if the barb not opening was a significant problem for euroguns, I expect they would have changed long ago (at least I would hope so). There might be local issues that influence the choice too. SA & US guns are probably rigged more powerfully in general, so any increased drag would not be an issue. Also, one fired, the barb will quickly fold hydrodynamically against the spear - so no difference for most of the flight. The SA fish are bigger, so perhaps they like to be sure the barb opens to retain the valuable catch. Maybe the little barb bend also helps lift the spear toward the end of its trajectory when it would otherwise start to fall?

Also, the down barb aids loading. It automatically turns the spear barb down, which is what you want for loading. Presumably you need to watch the alignment more carefully when loading a eurogun (I'll let you know when mine arrives, any day now*).

On the downside, the SA barb will cause more lateral drag when swinging a gun sideways, obvious but it hadn't occurred to me before. As the barb is at the end of the lever the affect on turning moment will be more significant*. As you say, the fish might see it. However, a shiney fish-shaped barbed might actual have a positive attraction/curiosity effect on fish (after all spearos have been known to attach muppet-lures to their muzzles for this purpose); anyway, I painted mine matt black! ("Black, it's the new camo")

Tomy Suero said:
I do not understand why manufacturer keep making spearshaft with the flopper on the inferior side...
Click to expand...
Probably because it continues to work well for them. The SA design may not be perfect but it is very good and it seems like they have been conservative to change when things work but quick to adopt/keep useful innovations. The europeans are starting to tentatively adopt rails & dyneema wishbones while they've been standard issue for years on the SA guns. So maybe it is those wacky europeans that have been more conservative after all? Or maybe it is just a fad -- I doubt it though. Dyneema wishbones for example are safer, more hydrodynamic, much cheaper, less damaging and quieter (they don't last as long but you can re-tie some quickly or have a spare strand).


*I recently ordered a 75cm Omer XXV which I hope with be a superb fast tracking, low vis. gun. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the 90cm RA railgun.
 
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marginatus said:
another thing is that after exiting the fish it's easier to open due to gravity. you can keep it in place with an oring and when it enters the target the oring is left behind and it just opens...
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I've seen a picture of this being done (thought it was on a euro-style barb tho') -- do you actually do this with your SA-style spear? I guess it would address most of the issues raised - don't know if it's worth the bother though.
 
Mr. X said:
Not if the flopper/barb doesn't open! I originally thought the euro-style better for hydro dynamic but I suspect the downside is an increased likelihood that it will not open (SA barbs have gravity to help open the barb).
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If a flopper/barb is well tuned it will open and then stay open once through the fish. It should be free and loose from the position against the shaft through to 45 degrees, from then on it should tighten up gradually until it is almost totally solid. So as you shoot, water drag keeps it shut, then when the shaft has stopped after penetration the flopper will bounce open and stay open.
 
Mr. X said:
I've seen a picture of this being done (thought it was on a euro-style barb tho') -- do you actually do this with your SA-style spear? I guess it would address most of the issues raised - don't know if it's worth the bother though.
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I havent done it yet but in my next gear order i'll buy some o-rings for that...
It's very popular in the med (especially for spears like trygons that have the barbs open by defaulf www.trygons.com) and from what i've seen it's really easy to put.

for small guns and close shots i wouldn't bother
 
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This is an easy one
The flopper on top (Tahitian style) is usually used on smaller size guns that are used for cave (crevices) hunting. The flopper on top closes by itself when you push the shaft forward i.e. when stuck in a cave it's easier to retrieve it.
On the other hand, flopper down (Hawaiian style) is used when hunting in open water because it opens by itself due to gravity when the shaft penetrates the fish.
Another thing is that the flopper down tends to serve as a wing and makes the shaft flight straighter especially on long-distance shots, which is 99% of the case in open water hunting. There are hydrodynamics formulas that explain the influence of the flopper on the flight of the shaft, but I don't think my English is good enough to translate them.
In a few words, the flopper on top makes the shaft go down and the flopper on the bottom makes it fly up. This is more valid for long distance shots.

Cheers!
 
Reactions: Mr. X and beamjoel
intersting info there dobs, i didnt realize the hawaian spears travel straighter for longer distances..
thanks
 
Dobs, thanks for the information, the reason why I was trying to get some input was because I lost my spear 6.3mm 125cm. omer to a barracuda, then I bouth a RA 6.6mm 120cm. I went back fishing and to be honest I just missed all my shots(was using 18mm bands with 82cm gun) with the 6.3mm shaft it was a killing machine. Now I'm going to use a HH reef muzzle with that same gun(omer Excalibur). I asked myself if the close muzzle and the 6.6mm was the problem, anyway I will try it this week. Thanks, Tomy
 
To make sure your barb is properly set up (at least on a spear similiar to my Rob Allen) you sometimes have to pinch the flapper a bit tighter with pliers right where it connects to the shaft. There should be resistance for the flopper to open all they way (so that it then stays open) and some resistance for it to close all the way. But here is where you tune it, you want it to hang just a bit off the spear so that it isnt dragging much but enough that it 'hooks' the fish as the spear is retrieved. This all may seem obvious is suppose but for months i didnt know i had to sometimes pinch the flopper and mine was way out of wack.
 
If you shoot a farter...your flipper can be Tahitian or Hawaiin...or Cuban (sideways)rofl
 
settingsteel said:
If you shoot a farter...your flipper can be Tahitian or Hawaiin...or Cuban (sideways)rofl
Click to expand...


That is true...

Is there a particular way they should be facing as farters have dual flippers.
Is up,down better or left,right or doesnt it matter?
 
Shaft in a farter revolves so you can turn it to dial Tahiti, or hawaiin, or sideways (Cuban)...alot of guys here (that shoot farters) dial in Cuban, never wondered why (but some swear by it), I generally do Tahiti, but when the gettin's good I usually don't worry , since the fish have not declared a preferencerofl
 
Spearslinger,
Are you saying to tune your flopper so that it is stiff the whole way and just loose at the last 2 centimeters before it touches the shaft,or are you saying that it should be stiff the whole way?
 
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Tomy, are you sure its the flopper causing the problem, it sounds more like the recoil may be tipping the ass end of the shaft up, are the shots going low? also if its muzzel heavy you may be experiencing shaft loss, where the muzzel dips on shot and causes lift from the bands, hard to explain but basicaly muzzel dips and bands push the ass end down. to be honest and not putting down my fellow spearos i dont think the floppy has such a significant hydrodynamic signature as to interfere with a well aimed shot unless its a 2cm guppy from 10 meters.
the reason is i also changed shaft sizes on euro guns and encountered these problems because less shaft is less weight over the muzzel hence problems with balance.

Peter.
 
Thanks Peter. Yes the shaft tends to go a litle down, but I replaced the muzzle with a open one, but I'm thinking to go fishing thursday and hopely there will be a positive change. Tomy
 
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