I was reading some threads that claimed people could have empty lung breath holds for one minute and above. Does an empty lung hold mean you focefully exhale *all* your air? I've been training a bit and got around 1:10 with foceful exhale. If empty lung holds are indeed what I think they are, then people who can hold for over two minutes are godlike. Maybe I'm getting the two terms mixed up, but maybe not? If someone could explain what I don't know that'd be great!
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Forceful exhale hold = empty lung hold?
- Thread starterXyseR
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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With a forceful exhale, 1:10 is not at all bad. Forceful exhale statics are very, very uncomfortable. You can progress with training, but few have the motivation to do so because of the immense uncomfort.
It can be pretty dangerous also - warning signs for samba and bo simply don't work like with full lungs. So if you choose to do that, be extra careful!
It can be pretty dangerous also - warning signs for samba and bo simply don't work like with full lungs. So if you choose to do that, be extra careful!
A very rough estimation:
We use (when relaxed) 250ml O2 a minute.
Every litre air contains 210ml, not so?
About half our O2 is in the blood (45%?)
(Depends on if you have had a spleen release, HB levels?)
We BO at about 50% oxymeter level.
(Lets say when half the O2 in the blood and in the lung is used).
So lets say we can theoreticly hold our breath for one minute per litre of air in the lung.
RV is about 1/4 of your TLC.
In my case 2 litres.
I have once held my breath at 4 meters at RV for about 2.10.
(full spleen release and high O2 partial pressure)
So can I hold my breath for 4x 2.10 = 8.40?
No maximum 7 minutes.
Could I hold my breath for 8.40 at 4 meters depth in perfect conditions?
So why do you stop XYSER at 1.10.
BO or too heavy contractions.
BO - means your oxygen limit is reached.
To stop because of contractions just means that you can ventilate more before and reach further.
BUT THIS HAS RISKS INVOLVED!
Sebastian
Sweden
We use (when relaxed) 250ml O2 a minute.
Every litre air contains 210ml, not so?
About half our O2 is in the blood (45%?)
(Depends on if you have had a spleen release, HB levels?)
We BO at about 50% oxymeter level.
(Lets say when half the O2 in the blood and in the lung is used).
So lets say we can theoreticly hold our breath for one minute per litre of air in the lung.
RV is about 1/4 of your TLC.
In my case 2 litres.
I have once held my breath at 4 meters at RV for about 2.10.
(full spleen release and high O2 partial pressure)
So can I hold my breath for 4x 2.10 = 8.40?
No maximum 7 minutes.
Could I hold my breath for 8.40 at 4 meters depth in perfect conditions?
So why do you stop XYSER at 1.10.
BO or too heavy contractions.
BO - means your oxygen limit is reached.
To stop because of contractions just means that you can ventilate more before and reach further.
BUT THIS HAS RISKS INVOLVED!
Sebastian
Sweden
To my knowledge the world record for full exhale static is 3'45" by William Trubridge.
My personal best used to be 2'50", but after FRC training my residual volume has decreased, which actually decreased my exhale static to about 2'20", even though my dives have increased dramatically.
Full exhale static is an excellent measure of the following number:
[blood volume*hemoglobin concentration + residual volume]/metabolic rate
So if any of the above four values change, your exhale static will measure it quite accurately.
My personal best used to be 2'50", but after FRC training my residual volume has decreased, which actually decreased my exhale static to about 2'20", even though my dives have increased dramatically.
Full exhale static is an excellent measure of the following number:
[blood volume*hemoglobin concentration + residual volume]/metabolic rate
So if any of the above four values change, your exhale static will measure it quite accurately.
The other day I did a 3'52", but to be fair these aren't forced exhales: I could probably squeeze out a little more, and I don't reverse pack. However, since I do the static in a seated (half-lotus) position it equates to a forced exhale lying down, as the torso is shortened when sitting. I also do 2-3 hours a week of lung stretches to reduce reduce residual volume.
Most interestingly I have found that I am able to do 3'+ full exhale statics on the first attempt (best 3'22"), and this is encouraging for no-warmup freediving max attempts.
Most interestingly I have found that I am able to do 3'+ full exhale statics on the first attempt (best 3'22"), and this is encouraging for no-warmup freediving max attempts.
When doing static exhale holds i get no where close to BOing or samba. it's the contractions that get me...
[little story of my first black-out: i stood up from laying down postion on my couch and decided to hold my breath, so i'd get all like light-heady...haha so my vision slowly gets all dark. basically when i do that, i try and breath before anything happens! but that time i didn't and ended up falling on the floor and my head hitting the floor a lot of times! that hurt, lol. so my mom got really scared/mad.]
When walking and doing exhale holds that's a whole different story though. instead of getting darker vision before you black out/samba your body feels like numb and like everything is sarreal(i think that's before you blackout?). i normally push myself to that, but is that bad?
another question is always after i do breath hold walks i'm all jumpy and exited. it's kinda hard to explain, but like i was kind of tired before i did my walk and now i'm all like woohooo!!! and stuff... i know i didn't decribe it good, but work with me
[blood volume*hemoglobin concentration + residual volume]/metabolic
how might i be able to find all that information out? i'm guessing a visit to the doctors or something? i know my metabolic rate is pretty high, so i'm guessing that isn't ideal..?
anyways thanks for helping ^^
(ps: breath holding walks are the worst when being watched....the neighbor was like wtf is this kid doing.)
[little story of my first black-out: i stood up from laying down postion on my couch and decided to hold my breath, so i'd get all like light-heady...haha so my vision slowly gets all dark. basically when i do that, i try and breath before anything happens! but that time i didn't and ended up falling on the floor and my head hitting the floor a lot of times! that hurt, lol. so my mom got really scared/mad.]
When walking and doing exhale holds that's a whole different story though. instead of getting darker vision before you black out/samba your body feels like numb and like everything is sarreal(i think that's before you blackout?). i normally push myself to that, but is that bad?
another question is always after i do breath hold walks i'm all jumpy and exited. it's kinda hard to explain, but like i was kind of tired before i did my walk and now i'm all like woohooo!!! and stuff... i know i didn't decribe it good, but work with me
[blood volume*hemoglobin concentration + residual volume]/metabolic
how might i be able to find all that information out? i'm guessing a visit to the doctors or something? i know my metabolic rate is pretty high, so i'm guessing that isn't ideal..?
anyways thanks for helping ^^
(ps: breath holding walks are the worst when being watched....the neighbor was like wtf is this kid doing.)
XyseR said:
If you push a breath-hold to near max, the glutamate in your brain will increase dramatically. Glutamate is also an excitatory neurotransmitter, acting sort of like caffeine. You get hyped up and shaky. You may find it hard to sleep.
that's really intresting! wow...it's kind of werid though. so cafine bascially has the same effects, but creates it with other...hmm..know of a site that explains the physiological/metal effects on the body of breath holding? i know there are some threads, but would there be a website that describes it more in detail?
Yesterday I did 2:00 full forced exhale, no reverse packing. That's a new PB, before I could do about 1:10. It wasn't as bad as before, normally with forced exhale statics all I can think of from the beginning is how awful it feels, but this time I was relaxed for about 1:30. Maybe I'll do more soon.
I get hyped up after max statics, but then I sleep better than before.
Lucia
I get hyped up after max statics, but then I sleep better than before.
Lucia
Question for experts
Hi. HEre in Russia I heard an opinion was expressed:
SERIAL EMPTY LUNG DYNAMICS (like laps 25m on5 m depth 2-3 minutes rest in between ) CAN DAMAGE ONE"s HEART.
What do english- speaking community thinks?
Hi. HEre in Russia I heard an opinion was expressed:
SERIAL EMPTY LUNG DYNAMICS (like laps 25m on5 m depth 2-3 minutes rest in between ) CAN DAMAGE ONE"s HEART.
What do english- speaking community thinks?
When I did the 2:00 forced exhale dry static, after about 15 seconds I felt the blood drain from my arms. It was different from anything I have experienced in normal training. Is that blood shift? Can it happen during dry exhale statics?
About serial empty lung dynamics, that sounds like a very taxing way to train, and probably not good. If I did that I would definitely samba! Serial dynamics are already hard training, and with empty lungs it would be much harder.
I'm not an expert though, maybe someone here knows more.
About serial empty lung dynamics, that sounds like a very taxing way to train, and probably not good. If I did that I would definitely samba! Serial dynamics are already hard training, and with empty lungs it would be much harder.
I'm not an expert though, maybe someone here knows more.
wow, congrats on gettign 2 mins...that's really good! i'm going to try and train like 30 mins today. going a whole lap while underwater would be killer...those contractions would be like super hard. i guess it may be stressful on you heart? i don't quite know either...hmmm. lol i kinda want to feel what blood draining from my arms feels like...but that doens't sound good. if you don't have blood in your arms or liek a body part for long enough doesn't it just get all purple and it falls alseep?
To me a forced exhale hold is just extremely uncomfortable. One reason might be that I am able to force out air forever. When I start the hold i am just in total vacuum. Still I find FRC holds uncomfortable too and I have a very high TLC/FRC ratio.
Still I think FRC/empty lung holds are very useful and I should do it more often.
Still I think FRC/empty lung holds are very useful and I should do it more often.
I don't know how much volume I have left after a forced exhale, but it does feel like a total vacuum when I start the hold. That's what I don't like about them, but it has got easier, so maybe I will get used to it.
I only do dry forced exhale statics. I'm not sure about the safety of doing it in the pool. If I BO with empty lungs, will water be drawn in by the negative pressure? Not something I want to find out the hard way.
I only do dry forced exhale statics. I'm not sure about the safety of doing it in the pool. If I BO with empty lungs, will water be drawn in by the negative pressure? Not something I want to find out the hard way.
I think it is a good thing not to do forced exhale/negative packing statics in the water unless you really know what you are up to. Getting water into the lungs might make things complicated.
Negative dives and FRC static are not the same as when you really force the air out. I am not the one to say that it is a big NONO, but I would at least advice that it should be done with EXTREMELY BIG caution, if at all.
Negative dives and FRC static are not the same as when you really force the air out. I am not the one to say that it is a big NONO, but I would at least advice that it should be done with EXTREMELY BIG caution, if at all.