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Freediving records cannot be official when the rope is pulled from the surface
- Thread starterjfc
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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+ Less resistance for the lanyard.
- hard to guess your speed while swimming up.
If recall correctly William Truebridge once said that the lanyard's friction gives about 1 meter less performance. In other words a lanyard has friction sliding over a line and that resistance can partially be mitigated by pulling the line.
But the question is, is the pulling of line significant enough?
Secondly, can we ask all organisers to pull the line for every athlete?
- Awaiting more information of people with experience with both methods to share their observations.
Love, Courage and Water,
Kars
- hard to guess your speed while swimming up.
If recall correctly William Truebridge once said that the lanyard's friction gives about 1 meter less performance. In other words a lanyard has friction sliding over a line and that resistance can partially be mitigated by pulling the line.
But the question is, is the pulling of line significant enough?
Secondly, can we ask all organisers to pull the line for every athlete?
- Awaiting more information of people with experience with both methods to share their observations.
Love, Courage and Water,
Kars
To everybody, I think by pulling the poster did not mend that the athlete cannot pull the line (in an emergency). - I think he rather mend the organiser reigning 'pulling' the rope in from the surface before the athlete has resurfaced or aborted his dive, for instance by disqualifying himself switching to Free immersion in order to safe himself.
I hope this makes it a bit more clear.
Kars
I hope this makes it a bit more clear.
Kars
Sorry about my english, but to be clear, what i was trying to say was:
1 - For a freediving record (constant weight) to be official i think that the rope should stay still until the end of the performance (except in case of emergency, of course).
2 - For instance, to be more specific, freediving records like the one made by Guillame Nery at 113m shouldn't be validated, because after he started is ascent, people in the boat, including a judge, pulled the rope to the surface.
3 - From a spectator point of view it seems like he just dive to 113m and then was pulled back to the surface with the help of the people in the boat, which decredits is performance.
4 - This method seems to be more safer than the counter ballast, but it might also induce the athlete to think that he can dive what ever depth he desire, because he will be pulled out of the water by one way or another.
Kars: the friction between the lanyard and rope might not be enough to pull the freediver but it could make a diference and that diference makes all the diference (just like touching the plate or bringing the tag).
Eric: i absolutely agree with that question about grabbing the rope at the end of the performance just before surfacing, if that was allowed, it would normalized all the depth disciplines and could also be applied to dynamics for the egde of the pool. Since it is allowed in static, it should be also allowed in the other disciplines, it's the first intuitive reaction at the end of a performance. Also, that would take out that question about if the freediver grab the rope or the edge of the pool before surfacing.
1 - For a freediving record (constant weight) to be official i think that the rope should stay still until the end of the performance (except in case of emergency, of course).
2 - For instance, to be more specific, freediving records like the one made by Guillame Nery at 113m shouldn't be validated, because after he started is ascent, people in the boat, including a judge, pulled the rope to the surface.
3 - From a spectator point of view it seems like he just dive to 113m and then was pulled back to the surface with the help of the people in the boat, which decredits is performance.
4 - This method seems to be more safer than the counter ballast, but it might also induce the athlete to think that he can dive what ever depth he desire, because he will be pulled out of the water by one way or another.
Kars: the friction between the lanyard and rope might not be enough to pull the freediver but it could make a diference and that diference makes all the diference (just like touching the plate or bringing the tag).
Eric: i absolutely agree with that question about grabbing the rope at the end of the performance just before surfacing, if that was allowed, it would normalized all the depth disciplines and could also be applied to dynamics for the egde of the pool. Since it is allowed in static, it should be also allowed in the other disciplines, it's the first intuitive reaction at the end of a performance. Also, that would take out that question about if the freediver grab the rope or the edge of the pool before surfacing.
It should definitely not be allowed !
One of the ways a Judge can detect pulling on a line is by feeling the line and watching if the boom moves. If the rope is coming up how can you check for this ?
The freediver is free to grab hold of the line and get a free ride up and no one would know about it. As an AIDA judge I'm very suprised it's ever been allowed.
Cheers,
Wal
One of the ways a Judge can detect pulling on a line is by feeling the line and watching if the boom moves. If the rope is coming up how can you check for this ?
The freediver is free to grab hold of the line and get a free ride up and no one would know about it. As an AIDA judge I'm very suprised it's ever been allowed.
Cheers,
Wal
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I'm lost... why would they do that? Were they in a hurry to turn the boat around and celebrate at the Negresco? On the other hand, it's not the first time that things are screwed up on the surface, like when the judges let Stepanek do his WR in DNF without tag only to tell him later that a tag was actually needed.
I am of the opinion that WR's should only be validated in the context of regular competitions, then these specific problems would not happen.
Edi:: I pressed no on the poll when I meant yes
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I think now I understand what the issue is here.
The French, just like the Swiss, like to release the counter ballast system every time after the diver has reached the bottom plate. They do this in competition as well as in record attempts, I think.
The reason behind it is that the time spent to find out that something went wrong at depth is too long to safely return the diver to the surface. When you start thinking about the timing of a -113m dive, you will understand that.
So, here we have a safety issue versus a regulation issue. In fact, the rules say nothing about wether or not the CBS can be releast in such a way. So no regulation was broken here.
I agree that the judges are depreeved of a very important means of controll. This should be balanced in the attempt by a different means like a bottom camera that is then comming up with the plate and tells you what is going on with the athlete.
In general, I think as the divers are going deeper and deeper our safety measurs should grow as well.
Cheers
Martin
PS: Personally, I would not start a poll about a thing I do not understand myself or am able to explain to others. But that is just my humble opinion...
The French, just like the Swiss, like to release the counter ballast system every time after the diver has reached the bottom plate. They do this in competition as well as in record attempts, I think.
The reason behind it is that the time spent to find out that something went wrong at depth is too long to safely return the diver to the surface. When you start thinking about the timing of a -113m dive, you will understand that.
So, here we have a safety issue versus a regulation issue. In fact, the rules say nothing about wether or not the CBS can be releast in such a way. So no regulation was broken here.
I agree that the judges are depreeved of a very important means of controll. This should be balanced in the attempt by a different means like a bottom camera that is then comming up with the plate and tells you what is going on with the athlete.
In general, I think as the divers are going deeper and deeper our safety measurs should grow as well.
Cheers
Martin
PS: Personally, I would not start a poll about a thing I do not understand myself or am able to explain to others. But that is just my humble opinion...
Thanks for your opinion, since you are a judge, i am curious to know what would other judges think too, since it seems that the regulations do not expressly deny that the official rope cannot be pulled from the surface by others.
hi, i was one of the judges for guillaume cwt record last year, which was performed with this safety system.
before the record dive we did several tries in order to see how easy it was to detect if the athlete was grabbing on the line to get a free ride up.
we were doing few dives during which we were improvising, sometimes grabbing, sometimes pulling, sometime grabbing AND swimming at the same time, while 2 pullers standing on the boat were pulling up the line. now, one of the 2 pullers was a judge, and she could distinctly feel the difference in the rope resistance during the different scenarios. after we established that if one of the pullers would be a judge it would be possible to detect grabbing, aida international gave a waiver to this particular attempt, and therefore guillaume was allowed to dive that way. and he was definitely not grabbing, also because he was WAY faster than the speed of the rope coming up
hope that makes it a bit more clear (but note that the judge shouldn't make this kind of decision on his own, without asking a waiver to aida!)
linda
before the record dive we did several tries in order to see how easy it was to detect if the athlete was grabbing on the line to get a free ride up.
we were doing few dives during which we were improvising, sometimes grabbing, sometimes pulling, sometime grabbing AND swimming at the same time, while 2 pullers standing on the boat were pulling up the line. now, one of the 2 pullers was a judge, and she could distinctly feel the difference in the rope resistance during the different scenarios. after we established that if one of the pullers would be a judge it would be possible to detect grabbing, aida international gave a waiver to this particular attempt, and therefore guillaume was allowed to dive that way. and he was definitely not grabbing, also because he was WAY faster than the speed of the rope coming up
hope that makes it a bit more clear
(but note that the judge shouldn't make this kind of decision on his own, without asking a waiver to aida!)linda
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When you pull up the dive line, during a record attempt, it's possible to rigg everything so that you can see the athlete during the whole swim up. (with the bottom camera that follow the line up)
/B
/B
I think this is the main question, does this method affect the freediver performance or not, how can you garantee exemption on that method, since there's a direct contact between the laynard and the official rope?
As Mullin said a freediver could ascend some 20m from the bottom and then relax for a while and getting a free ride to the surface without even grabbing the official line.
PS: if this method is allowed for record attempts, it should also be allowed for competitions as well and you shouldn't need for a waiver by aida to do so, why's that? (a reconignion that there could be some cheat in some situations?)