Freezing of Cold Water Wetsuit...

[Paraaronoid]

Just curious to know, is it advisable to use a coldwater wetsuit during the winter months? I have access to a body of water here in Saskatchewan that never ices over, but I am wondering if any damage will occur to my BARE 7mm Supra as I get out of the water and experience freezing of the wetsuit. As the water in my wetsuit expands due to freezing, will it stretch and damage the pores in the neoprene? To the point where it no longer holds in your heated water? I would think so, theoretically, but I am curious to know about actual observations. Can you ruin a cold water wetsuit this way?

Thanks.

 

[Erik]

Your suit doesn't hold heated water, or hopefully any water at all. Some might get inside against your skin, between skin and suit, but that means the suit is not a good fit and probably not open rubber on the inside (ie cloth/polyester).
There would be some water freezing on the outside of the suit when you come out, but that's no concern.
A diving suit has rubber that is full of sealed bubbles filled with gas- this is what insulates you.
Many bad instructors or salesman STILL tell people that a wetsuit traps water against your skin or IN the suit, that the water gets heated by your body, and that is why you stay warm. This is absolute horseshit- water is a terrible insulator, and an optimum suit lets no water anywhere near your skin, let alone in the pores of the suit.

Go diving brother!

 

[Paraaronoid]

Cool, that just turned my ideas of what I thought wetsuits did upside down. I have the 7mm BARE Supra, so I am going to have to look into what it is actually made of to be sure.

 

[Erik]

That's a decent suit for scuba diving, but there is no comparison to a freediving suit!
Your suit has very dense rubber, meaning very little gas bubbles for insulation and very stiff. This is so that it does not compress at depth, but the down side is that it does not insulate well as it's more solid rubber, plus it's got zippers and cloth lining.
A freediving suit will have more insulation (more bubbles inside) with the downside that it will compress more at depth, but because we spend most of our time at the surface it's ok. ELIOS makes suits in 3 levels of density- mine is medium density and 7mm, making it a good compromise of strength and insulation, but less flexible and insulating than a low-density suit. The other big factor is that it's rubber on the inside and custom-fit. No water gets in at all, no zippers or open neck areas etc. BEAUCHAT, OMER and others make presized suits that fit most people fairly well.
A low density suit on the other hand will not last as long and will be very negative at depth.
With a 5mm or 7mm freediving suit you can spend hours in cold water.

 

[hudasmt]

Hello Erik,

Since this topic is up, what do you do to avoid ear squeeze in your hood if the water is cold? Usually i let a little water in to avoid the squeeze when water is warm, but now the cold season has started and ear squeeze and cold water is in the issues

Cheers mate

 

[Erik]

I also let water in the hood to fill the space and when I remember, I wear my Proplugs or put a half piece of cotton ball in each ear. I forget a lot but it's really a good idea as bone growth tends to happen with coldwater divers.

 

[hudasmt]

Thanks,so i really have to let water in....brrrrrrrr

I need to bring some vodka during dive sessions to warm me uprofl:friday...Not!!!

Cheers:friday

 

[Erik]

Haha! The cotton balls work really well actually- wet them, stick them in your ear before you get in the water. They hold the water that you do let in so that it doesn't circulate. The water stays warm and comfortable, plus you can equalise better. The downside is that if you are with a buddy it's almost impossible to hear when you want to talk.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Para,

Just a couple of more observations. Fondueset has some hilarious stories about freezing to the ladder and/or deck after getting out of Lake Michigan in his 6 mil, ice cracking off the suit, etc. I've worn that suit extensively in obscenely cold water and been nice and warm (at least as warm as a Florida boy is going to get). Anyway, pretty sure freezing won't hurt a neoprene suit.

Connor

 

[Jon]

I've been ice diving for a couple of decades and the cold water never hurt any of my suits.

What can happen when you get out is that a suit with nylon lining on the outside can get sheets of ice frozen to it and make it a little stiff to move around in- this goes the same for wetsuits and drysuits. A suit with a slick coating on the outside will shed that water easier and not get those sheets of ice on them- think competition freediving wetsuit or a Viking, rubber, drysuit.

My first freediving suit that I took under the ice, many times, was opencell on the inside and nylon on the outside. It worked well and was tough enough for scuba- plus, it was a whole lot warmer than any scuba wetsuit I've ever owned. My current winter suit is opencell inside and smoothskin outside. I did 3 hours two weekends ago in 40F water and another 2 hours this past weekend in the same water- that water has since frozen over in the past 48 hours.:head

Jon

 

[hudasmt]

I've been ice diving for a couple of decades and the cold water never hurt any of my suits.

What can happen when you get out is that a suit with nylon lining on the outside can get sheets of ice frozen to it and make it a little stiff to move around in- this goes the same for wetsuits and drysuits. A suit with a slick coating on the outside will shed that water easier and not get those sheets of ice on them- think competition freediving wetsuit or a Viking, rubber, drysuit.

My first freediving suit that I took under the ice, many times, was opencell on the inside and nylon on the outside. It worked well and was tough enough for scuba- plus, it was a whole lot warmer than any scuba wetsuit I've ever owned. My current winter suit is opencell inside and smoothskin outside. I did 3 hours two weekends ago in 40F water and another 2 hours this past weekend in the same water- that water has since frozen over in the past 48 hours.:head

Jon

Hi Jon,

How do you cope with the ear squeeze in the hood with ice frozen cold water? Must be super chilled numb face you are having after a dive?:friday

 

[Jon]

I've been at it so long I don't even notice the ear squeeze. If it gets tight I just let a little bit of water in. I've seen some divers run a little string around the back of their head and out the sides of their face opening. When the squeeze starts they just pull on the string to let a little bit of water in. That's too much hassle for me, but works for others.

As far as cold on the face goes, I used to use an Ice Mask under my old wetsuit hoods to keep my face warm. With my Elios wetsuits I don't need one as the hoods are cut so well there's not much skin exposed- and any skin that is will numb out soon enough. For scuba I wear a full face mask under the ice- or in dirty water.

Jon

 

[Paraaronoid]

Thanks for all of the opinions on the subject. I guess the biggest hurdle now I face is convincing the Mrs. that I need another spearfishing season once the goose/duck/deer season is done, and during the icefishing season...

BEAUCHAT, OMER and others make presized suits that fit most people fairly well.
A low density suit on the other hand will not last as long and will be very negative at depth.
With a 5mm or 7mm freediving suit you can spend hours in cold water.

Is there a place in Sask. or Alberta, that one might find something like this? To go into a store and try on before purchasing? I wanted to do some shopping around when I bought my wetsuit, but it just isn't really possible living in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, where this stuff virtually does not exist (one store in the city, that is it and it's all BARE).

To chicken to buy online, as I have been screwed over a number of times this way...

I can't complain too bad though, I was able to do 2 1/2 hours in it in 40F back at the beginning of November in Saskatchewan...

 

[Erik]

There is nothing like this anywhere in Canada actually. I will say that jimdoe2you would be a great help in this situation. He sells Beauchat and a few other things. My g/friend got a great suit and fins from him for a great price, and I've bought a few other things from him. Send him a PM and he will be helpful. What size are you? If you're regular fit you could do well with an offtherack suit, but long arms etc will mandate a custom suit. The suits are very forgiving and in my experience you're better off buying a little tight if anything, to keep the water out.
Oh and a custom ELIOS is unbeatable, but the shipping will kill you. 4 of us ordered together to share the Italian shipping cost and it was very affordable.

 

[Jon]

Jimdoe is the way to go for a stock suit. If you do go with a custom Elios suit you can ask for slower (cheaper) shipping. Last time I bought a suit from them it cut the shipping in half. They won't offer it to you right away- you ned to ask for it.

Jon

 

[cdavis]

Fair warning: The "cheap" shipping is government post, both Italian and US, with all that implies. I wasn't in a hurry for my Elios and asked for the cheaper shipping. Almost a very bad mistake. Either the Italians or the US lost my suit for a month or two. I and Elios put out tracers, finally the suit arrived, but no response from the tracers. I got a "questionnaire" regarding my lost shipping about 6 months later. I seldom disagree with Jon, but, in this case, spend the extra money!

On internet shopping, JimDoe is absolutely reliable and his pricing is way too low for his own good. Elios will scare you to death with their sizing instructions, but I've never heard of anybody being less that delighted with their outcome.

Connor

 

[JCooke]

Why doesnt Elios have a US shop?