Freshwater Sushi/Sashimi

[Fondueset]

Anyone know anything about eating fish from say - Lake Michigan raw?

 

[Oldsarge]

DON'T DO IT!! Freshwater fish carry lots of parasites you definitely don't want to encounter. I hesitate to give examples because they are too frightening but if you insist, I will bring the resident microbiologist to expound upon the gory details. I warn you, when she was finishing her degree the kids and I would demand that she not discuss her classes until after dinner. It was too disgusting!

 

[naiad]

And I put my face in fish tanks... rofl

 

[Oldsarge]

:rofl
I think you're o.k. so long as you keep your mouth shut or, at the very minimum, don't swallow any of your specimens . . . until they've been cooked!

 

[podge]

I’ve kissed a few fish in my time maybe that’s why the third ear and the hunch on my back sometimes itch so much…

 

[spaghetti]

I can see your point, Podge. I can see it very well since I kissed this one...

Fondue: marinated perch is delicious: fillet it, put it raw in a dish and let it rest for a night in a cocktail of lemon juice, white vinegar, olive oil and pepper. The acid of juice and vinegar will kill bacteria and give the fish a great sour taste. I love it that way.

 

[Fondueset]

Ah! there we go.

 

[spaghetti]

..and a spoon of sugar. Raw marinated fish is commonly eaten in my country, also freshwater fish. The only warning is that fish must come from waters which are not organically polluted (you know what I mean), mainly due to the risk of cholera.

 

[Fondueset]

energetically I think something is lost in cooking. The way I feel after Sushi and after cooked fish is worlds apart.

 

[trux]

Well, parasites are a factor of risk not only at freshwater fish, but at saltwater fish too. The most known sea fish parasite is probably Anisakis (anisakidosis). It is not by accident that the highest number or registered cases is in Japan (though as far as I know it is not too alarming). However, you can find it elsewhere too (this document speaks abut clinical cases in France).

Most parasites live in the intestine, and start to move deeper into the tissue only certain time after the fish is killed. So if you spear a fish, dispatch it quickly, and eat fresh, there is relatively little chance you get a parasite. Another safe method is freezing it ASAP to -20°C.

Otherwise raw freshwater fish is being traditionally consumed in different countries (for example know as Eviche in Central America).

Here some tips for sushi consummation from How to Determine if Sushi Fish Is Fresh - eHow.com

• All fish, including seawater fish, may contain parasites. Although the risk is small, people at greater risk, including older people, small children and pregnant women, should be careful when eating raw fish. To kill the parasites, the fish needs to be frozen and then stored at -4 degrees F (-20 degrees C) for at least 24 hours. Your sushi fish should have been frozen this way, but if you are nervous, ask your sushi bar.
• Freshwater fish is riskier than saltwater fish, and salmon is thought to be particularly risky: It can be infected with tapeworms in addition to freshwater trematode parasites. Raw salmon is sometimes brined and vinegared when served raw, but this does not adequately kill any parasites.

Some interesting links to the topic:
Why would someone eat raw fish? [Archive] - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums
Health and Consumer Protection - Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures relating to Public Health - Outcome of discussions 05
High Prevalence of Seropositivity to a Major Allergen of Anisakis simplex, Ani s 1, in Dyspeptic Patients -- Toro et al. 11 (1): 115 -- Clinical and Vaccine Immunology
Health and Consumer Protection - Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures relating to Public Health - Outcome of discussions 05
Fish Parasites
Seafood Safety

My friend, aquacultrure bilogist who I consulted it with, told me he would not be much more afraid consuming raw freshwater fish than sea fish. On the other hand is uses to consume such volumes of alcohol that would kill a horse, so couple of worms pose nor risk for him indeed. Finally, with this method, he survived several years in Central American and Amazonian jungles, and many missions to remote regions in Asia too.

 

[spaghetti]

energetically I think something is lost in cooking. The way I feel after Sushi and after cooked fish is worlds apart.

Same for me. But I've always thought that it's because of wasabi's spicey/balsamic effect. What you say makes sense anyway: don't know if it's for the energetic content of raw meat, or just because it satisfies or tickles some primordial hunter's instinct of eating animals almost alive.
Freshwater fish just has to be handled with care due to sanitary cautions. Sea fish is great eaten raw, either in the japanese fashion, in the marinated mode (tweve hours or more resting in sour) and in the mediterranean style (fresh lemon juice and olive oil dropped on raw fish just before eating).
Raw amberjack tastes the best for me, followed by red tuna and salmon.
So the question is: is salmon served in sushui restaurants fished in freshwater?

 

[Oldsarge]

The problem with raw salmon is that they are born in fresh water and carry the parasites to sea with them. Yes, marinating in acidic solutions will take care of the problem but in California we consider ceviche to be chemically cooked rather than actually raw. Lox is a common source of parasitic infestations among Jewish traditionalists and when some in Chicago tried to do the same thing with carp, they actually perished from them! So, seafish are safer than freshwater species and, yes, they must be absolutely fresh and probably still kicking when gutted even so. Freshwater fish should be treated with either a good quality white wine vinegar, lemon juice or, best of all, lime juice . . . and lots of red onion! However, for those even a little bit squeamish, broiling is safest if you want to avoid overcooking. How many of you realize that one should use a instant read thermometer when cooking fish? The old "five minutes per inch" is bunkum. When the internal temp is 130 F., serve!

 

[trux]

This is another good link, with easily comprehensive information:
Eating fish safely: The prevention of Anisakiasis - Department of Health

Brief marinating (several hours) may not be always sufficient to kill parasites, especially if they are already deeper (the fish was not dispatched quickly).
The document show examples of fish food where humans were infected with parasites after consuming them:

• Ceviche and lomi lomi : raw fish marinated in lemon juice with other ingredients.
• Wild salmon eggs
• Sushi and sashimi: slices of raw fish and other ingredients, like rice.
• Lightly pickled herring
• Anchovies in vinegar
• Cold smoked fish
• Undercooked fish

Well, it won't stop me from eating sushi, but it is good to know how to reduce the risk, which is also mentioned there, and in the documents listed before. Also it is good to know what parasites you can expect in diverse species, and how much resistant they are against marinating / smoking / salting / cooking.

Look for example here: Common Parasites of California Marine Fishes - it shows how to handle individual types. They also write:

Don't count on the pickling, curing processes, or home refrigerators (most of which cannot attain the cold temperature required) to kill the larvae.

PS: I especially like the advice of treatment at practically all of the types: "Treatment: Remove and handle as usual."

 

[trux]

And another link for my fellow European freedivers. For example the document Fresh fish is taken off Spanish menus after parasite alert Independent, The (London) - Find Articles claims that "Spanish Food Security Agency found that 36 per cent of fish captured in Spanish waters in 2005 had been infected by anisakis" - that's a rather major number here.

I already quoted a medical document about [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisakis"]anisakis[/ame] cases in France, and you can find documents quoting cases elsewhere in Europe too, both on the Atlantic and the Med coast. However, I did not yet see any such alarm about it here in France as the above mentioned December alert in Spain. Well, French politicians traditionally like to hide the truth (for example at the Chernobyl catastrophe they claimed the radioactive cloud stopped at the border and turned away, which was BS of course, and only in the last time it becomes clear what damage it made to many people who did not protect them correspondingly like their neighbors in Germany or Switzerland did). For this reason I do not really expect an early warning from the French authorities, but seeing 36% of Spanish fish is infected, I see no reason why it should be much different in France either already now, or very soon.

 

[JPPLAY]

To make sushi/sashimi safe to eat you just need to freeze it below -30 degrees C. Most freezers don't do this though.

 

[trux]

To make sushi/sashimi safe to eat you just need to freeze it below -30 degrees C. Most freezers don't do this though.

As posted above and recommended in the linked documents, -20°C during at least 24 hours (some sources recommend up to 72h) are sufficient. Freezing compatments of home refrigerators are often indeed insufficient, but regular freezers should be fine.

 

[JPPLAY]

As posted above and recommended in the linked documents, -20°C during at least 24 hours (some sources recommend up to 72h) are sufficient. Freezing compatments of home refrigerators are often indeed insufficient, but regular freezers should be fine.

What health regulations is that from?

 

[trux]

What health regulations is that from?

Check them above. There are several of them mentioned in the posted links. The last one comes from the Spanish Food Security Agency and is quite recent (mid december 2006). May be different in Canada, but hey, you just need to let the fish outside for a moment, you do not need any freezers there!

 

[wet]

Just frommemory, regarding anisakiasis, boats which deposit the parasitized fish immediately into the freezer keeps the parasite out of the meat, but if the boat chills the fish first, and then freezes it, the parasite will have time to migrate into the meat, where even if frozen it will survive in the meat as a cyst. I believe this is accurate. I don't know if it was mentioned in the links.

The traditional northern Canadian fishing was to let the fish on the ice, where it was flash frozen in the extremely cold dry air.
DDeden