fully enclosed track power loading principles

[fishimani]

Hey Everyone,

My friend is looking in to purchasing a custom gun with a fully enclosed track. I am under the impression that it allows you to power the shaft more heavily than you would with an open track, i was wondering if there was a limit to the amount of overpowering you can do...say 4 3/4 inch bands on a 120cm euro style gun...shaft permitting of course. Any input?

-Pete

p.s. My 120 riffe euro will still beat the pants off his gun.:martial

hachacha

 

[strangelove]

I would think limit is more on the gun mass then on the enclosed track. perhaps the gun your friend is looking for is the trygons.

 

[nigelr]

The idea behind an enclosed track is to eliminate shaft 'whip' and thus improve accuracy. Shaft whip is more pronounced when using multiple bands. More mass will certainly decrease recoil.

 

[strangelove]

The idea behind an enclosed track is to eliminate shaft 'whip' and thus improve accuracy. Shaft whip is more pronounced when using multiple bands. More mass will certainly decrease recoil.

I am aware about that, I will try to be more specific, in fact I have three guns with enclosed tracks, at some point in my life I was really into the enclosed tracks. But the more I read about it more I think is it just a gimmick then a real fact (IMO). Specially when it refers to whipping. The shaft is never that tight inside the track any way. But the enclosed track does have the effect of less friction since the delrim is more slippery then wood (if your getting a wood gun with an enclosed track). But the enclosed track also takes long to rig since the shaft has to be thread into the track.

This is a very nice topic, I think for blue water guns, since less shooting is involve, an enclosed track is a good thing to have, but for an euro gun I don't think they are worth the cost (the trygons are very pricey!).

 

[nigelr]

Thanks for your opinion, strangelove, I appreciate it.
I'd have to agree with what you say regarding the practicality of the enclosed track given the increased difficulty of loading. Certainly not for every situation, IMO.
Have you used an epoxy/graphite enclosed track, and how would you compare it to the delrin insert variety?
Cheers.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I find enclosed tracks make guns easier to load. Once I get the shaft started down the track, it can't miss the mechanism. With an open track, sometimes I miss.

I concur that the main point of an enclosed track is to prevent shaft whip. On one of my guns I'm using three ⅝" bands and a 9/32" shaft, and the enclosed track keeps it accurate. On an open track guy of the same length with a 9/32" shaft, I stick to three 9/16" bands.

But if a gun is overpowered for its mass, an enclosed track won't prevent recoil and muzzle rise, so it will still be inaccurate.

 

[strangelove]

The only one I have is the delrin, all with my yokooji guns. I seldom used my enclosed track gun, probably the reason I take longer to load.

 

[Meshari]

The only one I have is the delrin, all with my yokooji guns. I seldom used my enclosed track gun, probably the reason I take longer to load.

i wonder why people say open muzzle is faster to load
it takes longer than closed muzzle
you have to put the spear through the bands
then try to put it in mechanism, or im doing it wrong ?

 

[strangelove]

i wonder why people say open muzzle is faster to load
it takes longer than closed muzzle
you have to put the spear through the bands
then try to put it in mechanism, or im doing it wrong ?

I think it depends what you are used to, the hole in an enclosed track gun is way smaller then the hole on a closed muzzle (at least with my guns), when I use my enclosed track, it takes me longer because I have to find the hole with the shaft moving in the water.

The Open muzzle at first (for me), took longer to load, now I think it may be a little faster (depending on the muzzle), with the HH most definitly, but with the omer HF2 LE, still takes me longer.

Ok these are personal finding, other diver may have diferent findings.

 

[foxfish]

i wonder why people say open muzzle is faster to load
it takes longer than closed muzzle
you have to put the spear through the bands
then try to put it in mechanism, or im doing it wrong ?

No you are not doing anything wrong & I totally agree, my enclosed tracks are fast, sure & simple to load.
However I do find the track does seem to sap power & enclosed tracks are probably more suitable for multi band applications.

 

[DivingDane]

i find open muzzles easier to load and doesnt matter which muzzle you use you still need to ensure the spear goes under the rubbers anyway. the line of site firing of an open muzzle lends its self well to fast tracking spur of the moment shots.

as for closed track havent had a lot of experience but one thing to note is that a mildly bent shaft will not go back into an enclosed track gun but is still usable on a tradional rail setup.

i really think the only place for BIG power and 3+ rubbers and enclosed tracks are on larger guns designed for BIG fish TUNA, MARLIN etc. very rarely is there a fish that i 7mm shaft with 2x 16mm rubbers on a 1.3m gun will not take comfortably except for the above mentioned fish,but it is still doable.

if your friend is looking a t a 1.2m gun with an enclosed track i would personally look at other alturnatives but then again i dont know the kind of fish you are chasing either.

as Bill said being able tokeep a shaft from whipping is only part of the battle when loading a gun up with alot of power, if the mass of the gun is not great enough to counter act the power then you will get large amounts of recoil and muzzle lift which regardless of how "straight" the shafts is coming out of the barrel will not be going in the right direction in the first place.

my 2c

DD

 

[foxfish]

I have tree enclosed track guns two powered with single bands & one with double band, they are all fantastic guns that fire beautifully. There is a distinct characteristic on firing that is difficult to explain but you feel confident the spear will fly straight.
I like the idea of a very thin spear 6 or 6.3 in a high powered gun that flies like lightning to hit small fish at long range - i thought the enclosed track design would be perfect but mine at least dont really compare to a dry barrel air gun.