Garra 2000HF vs. Garra 3000 for hunting

[basily]

Hi - I'm looking for some opinions here to help me decide.

I've been diving with a pair of Cressi-Sub Freefrogs for the last few years and I must say I love them. I seriously doubt that anyone can make a more comfortable fin.

Well, now I've been into freediving and even more so, pole-spear hunting, so I would like to upgrade (plus my fins are on their last legs now) to a pair of long fins.

Sticking to Cressi-Sub seems like an obvious choice to me (though the removable blade on some other brands is a really nice feature for travel) since I've been quite happy with what I have now.

So the questions... ONE, do I go for the 2000's or the 3000's, bearing in mind that my focus is hunting with possibly lots of surface swimming. TWO, what size do I get??? My FreeFrogs are 43/44, the Garras come in 42/43 and 44/45 - my fins fit perfectly, so what do I do? Go bigger or smaller? Why this discrepency in sizing between models?

Thanks very much for your time and help, anyone who reads and or responds.

Basil

 

[feign]

basil,

I dont know much on sizing from one fin to the other. If the new pocket is two big you could fill space wearing a thicker neoprene sock.

As far as the cressi fins go...I don't know about the 3000, but the 2000 suck for surface swimming. I have a pair, they are on the stiff side I think and I guess they are not bad for descending.

Just a thought for you, to possiby save you effort in the long run. If you have a little extra money, try looking into a fiberglass or carbon fin (probably fiberglass based on durability). Personally, I am looking to upgrade my 2000's as soon as I can for the Matrix or something. I tried Erik Y's old sporosub radicals (carbon in a plastic shell?) and the propulsion advantage over the 2000 was ridiculous, with less effort even.

Some of the other guys may be able to help you more on this issue.

Lee

 

[Baur]

Basil

I used Gara 2000 for about 5 years. Very dependable fin. Im a surface swimmer also and have covered 5-7km distances no problems. Problem I find with Gara 2000 is under 10-12m they dont give enough lift to the surface. Gara 3000 is stiffer and am using them now. Is longer by 3-4 cm than Gara 2000 and gives better lift from the deep. For price/quality I dont think you can go wrong with getting Cressis, unless you want to save up and by fiber fins, which are generally worth it.

 

[unirdna]

I've never used 3000's, but I have used 2000HF's and Freefrogs. Given the choice between these two, the decision would be easy....Frogs! For spearfishing, mind you - especially shallow spearing (10m or less). There have been fair reports on the surface-swimming performance of the 3000's, but Feign is right, the 2000HF's are terrible for surface swimming....the worst I've ever used.

Sizing between the Freefrogs and the 2000HF's was very close (2000's might have been a smidge wider). Both were 40/41.

Ted

 

[Roan]

There is so much about fins that are personal preference. I have a pair of Gara 3000's that hang in my garage and remain new. From time to time I take them out in the water and my feet (arches and other areas) get cramped because the foot pocket does not seem stiff enough. Comfy yes, until I kick for awhile. When the blade is that long and the pockects that pliable, the effort and energy goes into your foot and cramps your muscles. So I return to my trusty Sporasub H. Dessaults and hang the Garas back on the wall in my garage.

 

[Murat]

I know freefrog and gara3000. You can not compare the freefrog to fulllength freediving fin. Freefrogs are smooth as butter not the best fin for deeper hunting but you can swim all day long without pain. Gara 3000 are gets some time to used to it, it takes few dives for me. After some time your legs get stronger and you can swim all day long. One of my diving buddy uses gara 2000 hf and says that those fin is killing him on the surface so i think gara 3000 are better overall...

 

[Seal]

I also have a pair of Gara 3000.

And I agree very much with Roan. He points out the same problem I have with the fin.
If I should pick a non-fiber fin today I would go for the Sporasub H.Dessault with closed foot Link

It's cheaper, the footpocket is good. And when it's time you can put a fiberblade (C4 ) in it. And I have seen many spearfishers go below 20m with their gun.

Just my opinion

 

[chojan]

I must preface this by saying I have no spearfishing experience, but I have been diving with Gara 2000 LD's (softer than the HFs) as my only fin, and can confirm some of what has been said:

• Surface swimming face-down is terrible, I end up having to swim on my side or on my back.
• The foot pockets are soft (ie. they dont hold the blade's weight when held by the end of the pocket -- instead, the middle of the footpocket crumples). I used to get frequent arch-of-foot cramps for a while. I was told (by the PFD clinic) that this weak footpocket is the reason for the cramps. The Sporasub footpockets are reinforced underneath to give them enough strength to resist crumpling.
• Size-wise the footpocket is fairly narrow, which might exacerbate the cramp issue. I just bought some Sporasub footpockets and there is a significant difference in shape. The Sporasub footpockets are more square, while the integrated Gara footpockets are rectangular. I expect that this will end up being more comfortable in the end.
• No real complaints about ascending (I have been diving 40+m with them), but perhaps a different fin might make this easier? I have not had anything to compare against yet.

All in all, I have been urged to "upgrade" to the WaterWay Power Blades, so I'll report back after this weekend on how the "fiberplastic" compares. They are comparatively very cheap, so if they work better, I'll be very pleased. For spearfishing, I'm not sure if the blade shape & rails could be a hinderance in maneuverability, though.

Good luck!

 

[Skindiver]

I cant help with sizing. Too big is always better than too small. you can compensate with thicker socks.

I have Cressi 2000 HF's and loved these things for freediving until i stepped into a mono. I had them down to 45m easily. They are a stiff fin and cannot be overpowered by mortals on the ascent kicking hard. Surface swimming does suck but only when trying concertedly to cover ground. They tend to break the surface.

3000's i have no experience with but i understand the general consensus is that they are more flexible ( softer ? ) This should favour surface stuff.

I have Matrix / waterway fins too with Omer pockets. I chose the stiffest ( 5) and found them to be very soft in comparison to the plastic Omer milleniums and Cressi 2000's.

I would feel very un- confident free-falling deep with these Matrix fins and having to come back from deep down unless i dolphin kicked them. Granted i am a power ascender. I dont dawdle coming up. I have Sporasub Pures and they are in-between the Matrix and Cressi's in stiffness and the angled blade favours a bicycle kick. ( standing on the bent blade while it straightens.)

If i had to swim a lot and dive deep with bi - fins i would choose plastic Cressi 2000's even though surface swimming sucks. I get over this when i get in the water and get on with it.

 

[basily]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. You brought up a couple of points I hadn't thought of; the fact that I don't often go deeper than 10m while hunting, and most importantly, the foot pockets being too soft for the stiffness of the blade on the garras. Makes sense. Still I'll keep my eyes open for an opportunity to try one of these long fins (or any other) out.

For now I think I'll stick to the PRO STAR's, which seem to be the current version of the FreeFrogs. They are a pleasure to swim in, and unless I'm actually trying to chase a fish, I don't need any more power than they already give me. I like making the fish come to me better anyway.

As for a mono... one day, just for the shear pleasure that I hear it is to swim in one. I may never come out of the water again...

 

[Skindiver]

Cressi footpockets.

Having used both LD's and HF's i can confirm that in no way are the footpockets too soft for the blade. When kicking hard the load is felt on the ankle, and not on the foot which remains rigid. The blade bends gradually and only along the blade its self.

Compare this with Omer Milleniums for example, where you can feel the pocket bend under your toes and the ball of your foot, bending your toes back on the power stroke. This also occurs where the Omer pockets are fitted with Matrix / waterway blades.

Skin.

 

[Murat]

some may observe looseness while using neoprene socks because of the soappy water used to wear them and also inner neoprene cause to foot slips itself in the socks to prevent this partially i wear wooly socks with them too.

 

[basily]

Thanks again. Well, I'm tempted again, obviously, fins are an extremely personal preference.

The sizing issue is a problem though. I don't wear socks, I wear the fins barefoot, so they need to be the right size.

One might think it would be easy to figure out my size seeing as I'm currently wearing Cressi's Free Frog. Wrong. The sizing is different for long fins. Free Frog goes 41-42,43-44,45-46, etc, whereas the long fins go 40-41,42-43,44-45, etc. What gives? I wear 43-44 in Free Frogs, so what do I do for the long ones, a little smaller or a little bigger?

I think I'm going to have to hunt down a pair that I can actually try on. Mail order can't do that for you unfortunately.

 

[Murat]

Let me remind you something. I both used soft scuba fins of cressi (freefrog or something like that) and gara 3000. You can wear the freefrogs without sock but you can do that long blade fins like gara3000. The first day i bought the fin i wanted to try it but when i went to sea i just realized that i forget my wooly socks, then i said anyway i used to swim without socks (with my old soft scuba fins) and let it go after 30 minutes surface swim i just stated to feel some pain on the feet after 3-4 hours later when i get out of the water i saw i had some serious rubbing and tissue loss on the fet. Thats it i couldn't wear even shoes following few days.