Guilty or Not

[ihab]

I recently had an encounter with one of the speargun builders that left me baffled at his remarks & actions. …………I wanted to share this experience in order to receive some sort of feedback from others so as not to pass hasty judgment on this fellow.

Better yet, I’m ready to post every single email correspondence between us ..…as it is……in order to give it a fair trial……….without posting his name.

If I’m guilty, I’m willing to make a public apology on this forum…….If I’m not….I will post his name in order for others to know better when communicating with him.

Let me hear your thoughts about this…accordingly I will proceed.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[Adrian]

Ihab,
Start off with just telling us what ticked you off so much, a summary if you will. Then, if it's apparent that there's some serious misbehaviour as opposed to misunderstandings, then we could think about posting the guy's name or just having anybody who want's to know who he is PM you. This kind of denouncement can be a bit tricky, usually 90% of these are due to misunderstandings, language barriers, changed emails, whatever!

 

[ihab]

Adrian,

I can’t say I was “Ticked Off”…as much as I was a bit excited to receive quick responses to my emails.

You know how it is when we place an order…or plan to place an order for a new Gun…the euphoria that precedes this everlasting ritual of buying guns…..which is sometimes more exciting than spearfishing itself.

As you know, ordering a wooden gun to your specs takes some back/forth emails until you settle matters and proceed to pay.

Everything was progressing well when suddenly, after I sent a normal email asking if HE can answer some unanswered questions in my previous emails in order to move on (I was trying to receive the gun before a trip) ……..place the order….and pay for it …When SUDDENLY, HE declines to continue doing business with me.

As you mentioned, 90% of these are due to misunderstandings, language barriers, changed emails, whatever!..........so I proceeded with a formal apology (in case his home customs consider customer service is something evil or….etc.) yet he still declined to continue dealing.
Reading this, you would assume I insulted the guy in some form or another but that is quite contrary to the truth………!

That’s why, I’m offering to print every single email correspondence that went between us in order to leave it for people on this forum to judge…and best of all……in case they want to deal with Mr. HE….they know what to except and how to communicate with his type.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[blaiz]

I say post it. With out the knowledge of what was said between you two one could only assume the worst. With both sides in plain view one can easily formulate a reasonable opinion.

Plus, if what you said was true and there was no "unfriendly" exchange of words than anyone who is willing to buy through this "Mr. He" wont have to waist their time. Customer service, as far as Im concerned, should be number one and if someones ego disables them from dealing with costomers properly than I would like to know who they are!

Finally, I love gossip!:blackeye... just kidding.

 

[Marwan]

i say post it too
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Jonny250]

With respect ihab, i think that private emails should remain private. sorry you couldn't get the gun, but imo just move on.

 

[Adrian]

Any reason he gave to not want to continue dealing with you?

 

[Salehthefish]

Anyway you should know what all this happen. First thing to do is to ask him why he did behave like that... He could be in very bad mode due to family problem an accident someone dead we have to consider all this... If he will give you a fair reason then you do not have to post anything and the thing is solved, If he will be giving no reason at all or it will be not fair reason its all your right to post the case... but one more thing i am not familiar much with how to prove copied emails are right or wrong(With all respect)...

Because usually the right way to judge is to give both ends the chance to speak to the audience directly otherwise it is not fair

That was my opinion

~~pe@ce~~

 

[ihab]

I offered to post emails as is…..it’s a bit out of touch to consider an alteration from my part…at least this will give HIM the chance to rebuttal my claim that the emails are/are not authentic and to prove otherwise…so forget this point.

After I asked him to respond to my questions of previous emails…and I quote Hi XX:

I want to move on...please respond to my emails.

Best regards,
Ihab


The reason given on HIS behalf to decline doing business with me…
1- Manufacture spearguns, is only a part time business.
2- HE is not a production speargun facility
3- HE has a full time job & a family to take care of before he can start to respond to emails

Then, in this same email….HE suddenly freaks out; and I quote Sorry, I changed my mind. I hope you find someone to make you a gun to your satisfaction.

If some can make sense of this…please let’s hear it.

BTW, I'm from Egypt...but is customer service considered a taboo in some cultres.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[Padaxes]

The old adage is .. .any publicity is good publicity, i`d just get a gun somwehere else. His loss.

 

[blaiz]

It sounds as if he may be a busy guy, family to take care of, and a job. If building spearguns is not his first priority maybe he thought you were pressuring him a bit too much. I myself do a lot of wood work and Im sure you are aware that wood work takes a lot of time and a whole lot more patience. That might just be his way of telling you that he doesnt have the time to commit to building your gun in that time frame. You did say that you were trying to get the gun before a future trip?

Personally I would take a step back, order your gun from somewhere else and possible work with him in the future at HIS leisure. I know this doesnt sound like good customer service but it sounds as if he doesnt make guns to sustain himself, more so a hobby? That being said, these sorts of things arnt really comparable to doing business with big companies who relly on customer service and repeat business. You have to deal with people like this more like an eccentric artist. And thats if his guns are a piece of art and worth all the hassle.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ihab]

blaiz,
I did move on & take my business somewhere else from day one….no shortage of respectable gun builders there.

I was not asking that my gun be done in any time frame….I only mentioned that I had an upcoming trip…..to see if he could make it before this time…that’s all…..I see no harm in asking if he could make it before that time.

If he had accidentally thought that I MUST have the gun before that trip and he did not have time to commit to building my gun ….. he could have simply said….sorry I cannot build your gun by then…BUT that was not the case at all.
It was my email asking him to RESPOND to my unanswered questions that ticket him off and he suddenly declined to proceed in negotiation to making the gun.

I think that was rude….busy or not….if he did not have the time to make the gun, simply saying it in a professional & courteous manner would have been more appropriate.

If he builds guns as a hobby/leisure and has another job, family to attend to, busy…etc….that is no excuse for rudeness.

I myself am a businessman with a factory to run & deal with numerous suppliers/customers on a daily bases and cater to more than 23 international brands of sports supplements….BUT that is no excuse for rudeness.
If I’m overloaded & a customer comes along to ask for my business…and I cannot make it, I pay extra attention in excusing my self ….like any other educated & professional businessman.

I just cannot see a place for rudeness in any of this….eccentric or not.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[Marwan]

well i dont know about that, i mean you have a guy like Daryl Wong who's main job is being a dentist, and he also manufactures spearguns, is super nice and extremely professional..he always gives you a timefrane and in my case met it perfectly, havent heard other complains either...
in my humble opinion i think what you went through is really a misunderstanding as well as a different view of being courteous..
it sounds like that in his mind, for some reason, he felt that this gun would cause him an inconvenience/trouble of some sort, which he can avoid, and chose not to do it, which is something good that he was upfornt about it..instead of agreeing on details, sending payment etc.. and then risk his reputation..i understand that you didnt like the way he did it, but in light of what was posted earlier, i would attribute that to one or several of the following factors:
1 - Misunderstanding of some sort
2 - Language/culture barriers (although i doubt the language part)
3 - Perhaps he never sent a gun overseas and didnt want to risk any problems
4 - Perhaps he felt that he will not be up to your expectation/satisfaction..
5 - Perhaps he is very proud of his product and doesnt like being pressured so felt youre not worthy of it (we can disagree with him if thats the case, but we have to acknowledge that its his right to feel that way)
6 - Perhaps he heard about payment fraud issues from Egypt and freaked out
7 - Maybe he has personal issues to attend to at this time and really cant talk about building spearguns

but honeslty it sounds like his intentions are good, just poor communication which left you with a bad feeling..
at worst its a case of someone who chose not to do business with you or some other person and thats his right..i do agree with you though that he could have done it in a better way...im sure youll find a better gun somewhere else
cheers

 

[ihab]

Marwan,
Again, the point is not clear or maybe I’m having a tough time clearing matters and/or explaining events as they occurred so here is an email from HIM when he decided not to pursue business with me.

Kindly note, all your points about why he might have not wished to continue business with me are not valid….simply because we had already went through extensive details about the gun before he suddenly broke off…here is his email…..AS IT IS.
He also mentioned that I would be his first customer in Egypt.....!!!!!


HERE IS HIS EMAIL

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ihab,
Please take your business to someone else if you cannot wait for me to respond. I am doing my best here. Obviously we are on different time zones and what works well for you for emails isn’t necessarily in line with my available time. I only have time to respond to emails once a day as I am a very busy man. Realize this is only my part time business. I am not a production speargun facility. I work a full time engineering job and have a family to take care of before I even start to work on spearguns or respond to emails.

Sorry, I changed my mind. I hope you find someone to make you a gun to your satisfaction.

Thanks for your inquiry nevertheless.
XXX
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marwan, please note; I never mentioned that I cannot wait for him to respond....but this email is in response to an earlier email asking him to kindly answer my previous email....nothing more....nothing less.

I've dealt with a few gun manufacturers, all whom are BUSY and some who do it on a part-time basis......built never did anyone got upset because I emailed a reminder or asked for a reply...........I think it is more, HE is under pressure and cannot handle it well......still this does not give him the right to act in this manner if he is opened for business.....nor does anyone deserve to take any crap just because the other is busy.....who isn'tt busy these day...even my Grandma is busy.

Cheers,
Ihab

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[ihab]

3 more days and the poles say to post those emails.:martial

IMO...this will help others better understand this particular gun builder...so if they plan on ordering from him...and he does have some pretty looking guns...they know how to approach him...as weird as this may sound.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[blaiz]

blaiz,
I did move on & take my business somewhere else from day one….no shortage of respectable gun builders there.

I was not asking that my gun be done in any time frame….I only mentioned that I had an upcoming trip…..to see if he could make it before this time…that’s all…..I see no harm in asking if he could make it before that time.

If he had accidentally thought that I MUST have the gun before that trip and he did not have time to commit to building my gun ….. he could have simply said….sorry I cannot build your gun by then…BUT that was not the case at all.
It was my email asking him to RESPOND to my unanswered questions that ticket him off and he suddenly declined to proceed in negotiation to making the gun.

I think that was rude….busy or not….if he did not have the time to make the gun, simply saying it in a professional & courteous manner would have been more appropriate.

If he builds guns as a hobby/leisure and has another job, family to attend to, busy…etc….that is no excuse for rudeness.

I myself am a businessman with a factory to run & deal with numerous suppliers/customers on a daily bases and cater to more than 23 international brands of sports supplements….BUT that is no excuse for rudeness.
If I’m overloaded & a customer comes along to ask for my business…and I cannot make it, I pay extra attention in excusing my self ….like any other educated & professional businessman.

I just cannot see a place for rudeness in any of this….eccentric or not.

Cheers,
Ihab

i hope you dont think I was trying to justify anything this gentlemen has done or the way he has behaved. I am merely trying to make sense of the events that took place.

 

[Adrian]

People express themselves in many different ways, sometimes the language pulls away from you and what comes out or how it comes out isn't what you intended. This for me is a case of misunderstanding, and with a form of communication that doesn't allow for visual or audible support (i.e, seeing one's face and hearing the tone in which something is said), our own perceptions get projected into the message, possibly distorting the originator's intent and creating a hybrid impression that's both half true and half false.

He probably didn't consider his email rude, and was just acknowledging - perhaps a bit too late in the process - that his other commitments have priority. From your perspective as a professional you may be very sentitive to these issues as your business depends on good relations - you percieve this tardiness as rudeness, or at the very least unprofessional vendor-client behavior and are pissed off for his having wasted your time. This is how I'm reading the situation unless as Marwan said there are other reasons that this person is not mentioning.

In any case, this being the situation I'd just drop him and get out of the whole negativity generated and move on to a gun builder that will know how to benefit from the other's loss. Your time is too valuable to waste in something that will not produce the results you want. That includes posting more of his emails here! The whole result of all of our activities is to be happy and fulfilled. If some process in our lives is consistently putting obstacles in our way, then we are just wasting our time. That process should go, and we move on.

If anyone wants to know who he is, they can PM you - and in this way keep in mind your experience when dealing with him.

 

[Marwan]

that s soo funny that ihab feels that this guy who makes great guns needs a special approach and others must be warned, reminds me of a famous seinfeld episode, im sure you guys watch seinfeld or have watched it at some point, im just getting a "soup nazi" vibe (remember that episode? ) needs a special approach or NO SOUP FOR YOU! rofl rofl
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2lfZg-apSA&feature=related]YouTube - The Best of The Soup Nazi[/ame]

 

[ihab]

Marwan, you've made my day...I just couldn’t stop laughing while imagining the other guy on the other end…..EXACTAMOUNDO is all I can say.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[ihab]

People express themselves in many different ways, sometimes the language pulls away from you and what comes out or how it comes out isn't what you intended. This for me is a case of misunderstanding, and with a form of communication that doesn't allow for visual or audible support (i.e, seeing one's face and hearing the tone in which something is said), our own perceptions get projected into the message, possibly distorting the originator's intent and creating a hybrid impression that's both half true and half false.

He probably didn't consider his email rude, and was just acknowledging - perhaps a bit too late in the process - that his other commitments have priority. From your perspective as a professional you may be very sentitive to these issues as your business depends on good relations - you percieve this tardiness as rudeness, or at the very least unprofessional vendor-client behavior and are pissed off for his having wasted your time. This is how I'm reading the situation unless as Marwan said there are other reasons that this person is not mentioning.

In any case, this being the situation I'd just drop him and get out of the whole negativity generated and move on to a gun builder that will know how to benefit from the other's loss. Your time is too valuable to waste in something that will not produce the results you want. That includes posting more of his emails here! The whole result of all of our activities is to be happy and fulfilled. If some process in our lives is consistently putting obstacles in our way, then we are just wasting our time. That process should go, and we move on.

If anyone wants to know who he is, they can PM you - and in this way keep in mind your experience when dealing with him.

Adrian,

The main reason I posted this incident so as to warn others in case they will deal with Him in the Future.
Also, what are Forums for…..let’s not forget, without these Forums we wouldn’t have achieved half the knowledge we have today within a small time frame.
This leads to freedom of expression, sharing your experience, exposing the good, the bad & the ugly ………without any boundaries.

I’m not trying to live the negativity of this particular situation…I’ve already made a deal with another gun builder…….moved on and happy with the new deal…..…BUT I wanted others on DeeperBlue to benefit from my experience as I have benefited a lot from others experience ……right here on this forum….at least this is the way I see it…Tell it as it is & let others use their own judgment…but foremost it must come out in the open….negative or positive.

Cheers,
Ihab