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mishu1984 · Apr 25, 2008

i am currently using a Picasso Century Wood-Carbon.
its an amazing gun. the only problem is that it came with 19mm rubbers which for the life of me, i cant load. so i changed the setup to shorter 16mm bands. Im using a single band setup. now the question is, if i go and add a circular band, should i change both my wishbones to dacron, or use the regular articulated wishbone.

attached is the pic of my gun now

ulysses · Apr 26, 2008

If you want to preserve the beautiful wooden stock, I'd recommed switching to dyneema wishbones. Needless to say, this will require some filing & polishing of the shaft notches.

If you don't mind scratching up the front part of the stock with the articulated wishbone and do some refurbishment (2K epoxy + marine varnish) at the end of the season, that is also a feasible option. HOWEVER, I strongly recommend to exchange the flat articulated Picasso wishbone you currently use. This is made of extremely soft metal which is absolutely unsuitable for a wishbone. It is a mystery to me how a company like Picasso can sell such low-grade material.

Cheers

mishu1984 · Apr 26, 2008

OK. im going to change to omer shafts: shark fins and dynema wishbones

ulysses · Apr 26, 2008

mishu1984 said:
OK. im going to change to omer shafts: shark fins and dynema wishbones

Certainly NOT shark fins! The Picasso Century muzzle is fragile to begin with, the shark fins will destroy the bridge.

Cheers

mishu1984 · Apr 26, 2008

im getting low profile shark fins. if i think there too big then i will have to carefully cut the bridge. also, i could always have a custom muzzle made or get a second one.
either way, after filling away at the shafts they still eat at my wishbone

ulysses · Apr 26, 2008

mishu1984 said:
im getting low profile shark fins. if i think there too big then i will have to carefully cut the bridge. also, i could always have a custom muzzle made or get a second one.

You better get more than one replacement muzzle However, Picasso also makes an open muzzle for circular bands. Get this one, if you want to use shark fins.

mishu1984 said:
either way, after filling away at the shafts they still eat at my wishbone

This is how it is done: Rons Sea Corner

Cheers

Mr. X · Apr 26, 2008

Alternatively you could buy a non-finned spear designed for Dyneema wishbones. I saw them offered in a euro catalog last year -- Picasso's I think. Also, of course, Rob Allen spears - which seem pretty tough to me - and which have the flopper/barb on the bottom (you could change that if your prefer euro-style on top).

Not sure what the current craze for shark-finned spears is all about, I guess it would make loading a little easier (as does having the flopper on the bottom). However, it would also create drag & presumably more damage on the fish on entry & when removed - or is that the idea?

mishu1984 · Apr 27, 2008

Ulysess: many thanks. i was doing it not so right

Mr.X: the crazei dont know. i wouldnt call it a craze. i dont particularly like them, but if i have to start making a new wishbone for every 20 shots i take, im not going to be so inclined to use dynema wishbones for much longer. as for the floper, i prefer it on top, exclusively for aesthetic purposes, i dont like anything dangling of my shaft, other that dead fish

Pastor · Apr 27, 2008

You're having to make new wishbones every 20 shots? Something is most definitely wrong there mishu. Mine can and do last a whole season and I generally only change them out of course. OK they can get damaged by a careless load but that is one of the advantages of sharkfin shafts. Check out the area of the sharkfin and make sure it's well polished otherwise it will abrade the dyneema's nylon casing. Alternatively try getting a Rob Allen shaft and turning the flopper over.

How are your bands rigged, do they have small loops to tie in new wishbones without having to strip the whole thing down?

mishu1984 · Apr 27, 2008

with my previous setup, i basically unscrewed the articulated wishbones and looped a length of dyneema and tie it to a washer and screwed it back on to the band. i was doing this while using regular euro shafts, not sharkfin. and after having to change my wishbone during my dive i just gave up and switched back to using the articulated one.

also, i find the articulated wishbone easier to load with a notched euro shaft.

Mr. X · Apr 28, 2008

This raises an important point: you can use much thicker Dyneema wishbones with sharkfins than with notches. Not sure if that is true of the new RA mini-fins, which are quite small (although I suspect it is true of the Dessault mini-fins that Glowworm & Podge recently got). The RA wishbones are much thinner than those used by Bill McIntyre, and I suspect Pastor. I'm guessing Mishu never bothered filing the grooves of his spear to handle Dyneema (per the excellent link above). However, I had trouble with wishbones last year that turned out to be due to not having the rubber lengths quite even on both sides (16mm rubber probably slides into place with use if uneven but the 20mm rubber did not) - causing the wishbone to be dragged through the groove of my RA spear each time it was fired.

A washer sounds like it might cut dyneema (& rubber) unlike a round bead or the pear-shaped RA nylon toggles. I must make an effort to rig my wishbones like Pastor this year - cheaper & more convenient.

ulysses · Apr 28, 2008

I have the impression that mishu did not actually insert a dyneema wishbone + washer into the bands and tied them with a constrictor knot. It is my understanding that he used the original caps on the original screw-in bands and only replaced the metal wishbone with dyneema.

Of course, this mixed set-up is feasible. However, some of the advantages of using a 'true' dyneema wishbone are lost.

Disadvantages of using caps:
- the wooden stock will be scratched up by the caps over time
- the brittle Picasso caps will brake sooner or later
- caps (in whatever set-up) diminish the extension of the bands by some cms
- caps and screw-in bands are not very hydrodynamic (parachute effect)

Taking into account that the closed Century muzzle provides for screw-in bands, and the gun came with these, the easiest solution is to destroy the plastic thread on one end (a blow with a hammer will do), remove the bead inside the bands and insert/tie a proper dyneema wishbone.

Alternatively, mishu could go back to articulated (not the Picasso trash though) or tahiti (my favourite) wishbones, but this time remove the caps and use M4 threaded sphere nuts on the end instead (my choice). This type of wishbone with spheres is also available from various manufacturers (avoid O mer[de]).

Cheers
ulysses

Marwan · Apr 28, 2008

i love the tahiti wishbones too, i find them very safe and reliable, lately though im finding a couple of them starting to break (the plastic caps)...i use beuchat
ulysses which ones are you using...beuchat?

ulysses · Apr 28, 2008

Marwan,

I started using Beuchat with caps and now use Beuchat & Imersion with sphere nuts inserted into the rubber end + constrictor, i.e. without the caps.

=> http://www.chasse-sous-marine.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=55&products_id=1253

Be aware the new Beuchat caps are extremely thin :rcard and the tahiti wishbone puts a lot of strain on the caps via the metal washer. You can notice the plastic material giving in by small white streak at the end of cap where the wishbone arms are inserted.

If you care for your fingers, I suggest you either replace the caps or do as I described above (the ease of loading long arbaletes even increases and you stretch the rubber a bit more with this set-up without any risk of the caps exploding).

Cheers,
ulysses

P.S. No hard feelings about the Gara vs. Ice discussion :inlove

Marwan · Apr 28, 2008

exactly!, what i noticed the the thin white line a sure sign of imminent finger pain rofl, i know the ones with the inserts might give them a try..im just too lazy

hey no hard feelings of course, we're a bunch of freinds here

cheers

mishu1984 · Apr 29, 2008

uleysses. true and not true
currently, with my picasso, i didnt bother using a "real" dyneema setup. just unscrew cap, insert dyneema, screew cap. it makes replacing them easier.
HOWEVER, (please excuse the caps) i did use "real" dyneema wishbones with my cressi 110. i had the same problem. yet, in my defence, i never "properly" filled my notches. actually, if anything, i think i made them sharper :head

i will end up switching out my wishbones entirely, i just need to get some proper materials as i want to preserve my wood finish

mishu1984 · May 11, 2008

ok. time for a little update.
i changed out my shafts, now im using omer sharktabs and dyneema wishbones in all my guns.
with the picaso 110, i changed the rubbers as well. im hoping that my current setup will finally give me the kind of penetration i want. now the problem that im having is that i cant load 18's.
currently im hitting the gym so that i hopefully can load my gun by this weekend, but realistically thats not going to happen.
so, does any1 have any suggestion how i can load it short of asking my buddy to load it for me, which i dont want to do, cuz, well... its not very manly

kjflyfish · May 11, 2008

Mishu, are you hip loading? If so, try chest loading - you can generate a lot more power that way. Properly sized 18s should be a snap.

mishu1984 · May 11, 2008

both. i usually load to the first tab using my hip and the second with my chest. this is with the 16's. 18's i cant to either

kjflyfish · May 12, 2008

Twin 16s is plenty of power for a euro. I wouldn't even bother with 18s if you're running doubles.

On my 85cm woody, I use two 14s @ 3.5:1 stretch and it's got pinpoint accuracy and all the grunt I could ever need.

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