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handsfree work on land but not at all in water - suggestions?

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jojo_dk

Member
Jun 1, 2013
3
0
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Hi guys,

I am trying to crack the handsfree equalizing nut and hoping for a bit of advice/suggestions.

I am able to "open the tubes" at will on dry land and hear my breath and feel the pressure push/pull the tympanic membrane as I breathe. It works from standing up to until an angel slightly below horizontal and I can do it for at least 30 seconds at a time.

However, when in water, there is no way I can make it work, head up or head down--it doesn't matter. If I attempt to "open the tubes" and exhale really hard through the nose, the resistance of the mask will make enough pressure that I can actually make it to the bottom of a 4 m pool without squeezing the nose (head upwards). This is obviously not what I'm looking for since the mask will leak tons of air in the process. Same thing head down, forget it.

I've practiced on land with (different) masks, with or without breath-hold, everything works. The problem only exists when in water. It is a bit frustrating, like winning the lottery but being unable to cash the ticket :)

My current strategy is to keep practicing this, in water, head up, until I hopefully get an epiphany...

Maybe I should add that I usually do Frenzel and to make that work, I have to actually do the tube opening thing before the throat-piston thing. It it a lot harder for me to equalize head-down than head-up, which limits my dives to somewhere between 15 and 25 meters where I seem to "run out of air". This, I figure, is mostly due to bad technique which I am working on, just thought I would add it.

I tried searching a bit but apart from a couple of comments that water is a whole different ballgame compared to dry land, I didn't find anything that seemed to address this issue.

Suggestions?
 
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I'm in the same boat... So I'm "all ears" on this topic.

I use both valsalva and frenzel-fattah...

Trying to remember to ONLY use Frenzel-Fattah, so it becomes my default method.
 
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Maybe try the following:

1. Pre-equalise at surface

2. Less Aggressive duck dive

3. Make sure you start equalising as soon as your face hits the water. You should feel the first equalisation halfway during your duck dive where your head is probably 0.5m in the water.

4. Keep equalising all the time as you go down. The 'firing sequence' you describe sounds ok ie open tubes and frenzel

5. Relax! :)

6. Make sure head and back position are right.

7. Neck/jaw stretching before diving

Hope some of this helps. It's just a question of practice, you'll get it.
 
Hi, and thanks for the reply.

The challenge for me starts in the water head-up half a meter under, I will not be able to equalize without pinching my nose. Above water I can "flutter" the eardrums as much as I like with or without mask, and I don't have to nose-pinch.


1. Pre-equalise at surface

Good point: above water, preequalize against mask (soft frenzel) before immersion. Will try.

2. Less Aggressive duck dive

3. Make sure you start equalising as soon as your face hits the water. You should feel the first equalisation halfway during your duck dive where your head is probably 0.5m in the water.

4. Keep equalising all the time as you go down. The 'firing sequence' you describe sounds ok ie open tubes and frenzel
I haven't made it to attempting hands-free in head-down dives at all yet. (I have use Frenzel + pinch.)

5. Relax! :)

6. Make sure head and back position are right.

7. Neck/jaw stretching before diving
I will focus more on relaxing, might be an issue there. Didn't think of stretching at the pool edge, will try it.
 
Regarding #1, i personally just pinch my nose and do a normal equalisation at the surface just before I dive... Seems to help get that first couple of equalisations...
 
I could always "wiggle" my ears and for that reason I thought I will go hands-free. It became harder than I thought but then again my focus was on "sure" Frenzel technique. Recently on side of my normal dives I attempted hands-free dive, slowly down the rope. To my surprise I managed to equalize head down to 10m. I was thinking why I can do it only sometimes and figured out it has something to do with relaxation and head position (as Simos mentioned).

Additionally before I had my first "successful" hands-free dive I did few dry equalizations just before I dived so I remembered the movement. I observed that if I don't practice this movement frequently I tend to lose it underwater. The more I then try to do it the more I forget. Trying to hard just kills it.

Other aspect is head down position. I used to train my dry Frenzel head down (and at any possible position) so I've never had a problem of doing it even with "fucked up" position underwater. But I've practiced my hand-free just siting at work in front of computer. Body simply wasn't prepared for a drastic change of position and circumstances and I didn't "remember" the move.
 
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The muscles and the nerve pathways you use to equalize hands free are strengthend with practice. Solomon once recommended doing BTV dry 200 times in a single session, doing it every day. Try this twice a day for a month or so and see if things get easier. Doing a series just before diving is also a good idea. Your muscles and nerves do "remember".

The advice on "pre equalization, equalize early and often, is critical.
 
The muscles and the nerve pathways you use to equalize hands free are strengthend with practice. Solomon once recommended doing BTV dry 200 times in a single session, doing it every day. Try this twice a day for a month or so and see if things get easier. Doing a series just before diving is also a good idea. Your muscles and nerves do "remember".

The advice on "pre equalization, equalize early and often, is critical.

I did these 200 reps a day thing, haha. It's very addictive!
 
Hi, any results after 2 years? I've the same problem. On Land, BTV works without problems (can hear my own voice different in my head when I do). I also frustrated so I give more energy in practice frenzel
Aaron helps a lot
and this guy gives the last tip to make it easy happen

I have found a .doc thats give some BTV practice tips eng.apnea.co.il/edu/btv_eng.doc
But if there is someone who have a another tip for underwater BTV, let me know.

By the way just open the tubes make it possible to equalization? but the water pressure press the eardrum in, in BTV I don't need to press the eardrum out, than why the eardrum don't stretch to tear?
 
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