help?

[flippinmermaiD:]

im trying to homemake a monofin, ive designed a specific shape but i want to know if it'll work for me iv acess to a lake and a pool, and if the shape will even work in general, ive seen it on a fish so i believe its possible.. i also want to know about materials.. what should i look for? whats affordable? ive only gone as far as paper at this stage, and i noticed that curving it slightly downward increases downstroke thrust, (and drag as well?) but it also zigzags slightly. will that matter over all in the water? (hopefully) heres a pic : ahh its not working ..flickr hates me..if you want to see it go to this link:
not really only temp by ~predatoryprecipita on deviantART perhaps thisll work..

 

[sross]

Hi flippinmermaid,

Had a look at your photo. Naturalistic styles of monofin that look somewhat like dolphin or whale flukes tend not to be very good for us humans.

I've tried this style myself, & I can assure you that the results tend to make you ankles tired if they are large enough to move significant amounts of water, or you move very slowly if they're flexible enough that you can stroke with them without killing your joints.

I think the reason they work for dolphins & others is that these animals have huge strength in the rear portion of their bodies without a ligamented joint that represents a weak point in the delivery of power to the flukes. Also, the cetaceans have muscular control of their flukes and actually optimize its respone when they stroke. There's no way (yet! ) to do that in an artificial tail.

The longer, narrower monofins with lots of flex because of their length are designed to allow us humans with weak ankles to transmit energy into the fin at a rate our ankles can handle, while accumulating it for transmission into the water, with hopefully as small losses as possible (fight that entropy baby! :martial )

More thoughts are in the "Extreme dolfinism" thread http://forums.deeperblue.com/monofins/85969-extreme-dolfinism.html

There are some shorter, wide fin designs that work, you might google up info on the Lunocet & Dol-Fin Orca fins. They're sort of like a wing for your feet.

Anyhow, I hope you have fun playing around.

 

[flippinmermaiD:]

do you think there is a balance between ankle killing water displacement, and easy stroke? interesting to note..dolphins muscles are actually disproportionate to their actual movement capacity.. their secret is their springy blubber ps would all human's ankles have the same results? if you practice strengthining them could that work?

 

[sross]

Hi flippinmermaid,

There's no question that by training you can toughen up your ankles to apply more force to your fins without hurting yourself.

It's not water displacement per se that hurts you ankles, it's how fast you have to displace it to get your body moving (accelerate it)

The elasticity of the monofin allows you to build up the force over time instead of instantly, so your ankles don't get a sudden jolt.

Think of it as being a bit like what happens to a car with a manual gear shift. You let the clutch engage at the right pace to let the car start moving forward without overloading the engine. If you just let the clutch out instantly, the motor doesn't have enough power to move the car forward instantly, and it stalls out.

Our legs have a different fail-safe mechanism, so what usually happens if you use a hard, inflexible fin is, the ligaments in your ankles get too much strain applied, and you get that classic painful twinge inside your ankle, which makes you back off.

The wheel has already been invented as far as fins, bi- and mono- are concerned. Good ones may be a little pricey, but you could spend a lot of time & money experimenting too. Do you want one that specifically has the cool dolphin/mermaid tail look?

 

[ReefTroll]

There are companies that sell packs to put designs on fins too if this is something you'd be interested in, you could make it more fish like that way.
Or could you use a normal monofin and attach something thing to it that gives it more fish shape but doesn't affect it's use

 

[flippinmermaiD:]

Thanks so much for your guys' input! its awesome!-- im not concerned with style as much, being inexperienced, fish tails seemed the first logical choice.. but even just playing with the paper fin i can tell it wouldnt be very efficeint for me in the water, i was hoping for a small medium flex mono fin, im not looking to go freediving, i just really want greater speed. my pool will be small and i dont want to be knocking against the walls all the time! do you think i should just shop for one?

 

[bobdonny]

Just a point... a fish's fin is based on the slow progression of evolution. Technology on the other hand evolves at a much faster rate (about 10,000 times faster).

I.e. if fish could choose, I reckon they would opt for a nice black carbon monofin as opposed to their obsolete organic fin.

So the choice by humans to mimic the sea creatures is purely a stylised one, and not a practical one. It would be much more sensible to use technology that can surpass natural artefacts.

 

[sross]

just really want greater speed. my pool do you think i should just shop for one?

Yeah, it would be best to just buy a pool-style monofin.

They're designed for the sport of Finswimming (swim races in pools with fins rather than bare feet)

If you can get to a town with a finswimming club you can go out & try some fins usually, and most clubs will help newbies order fins.

If not, you can order 'em online. Some folks in Eastern Europe have pretty good deals ( http://www.finswimworld.com/WaterWay_2007.pdf )

( Triton Underwater Sport Equipment )

Since you are a bit new to finning, and don't neccessarily want to reach high speeds, have you thought about going with conventional fins for a little while, or have you gotten used to bi-fins and want to make the move to mono?

A club can be really helpful, since the coaches & experienced swimmers can be a great help in teaching you the little tricks involved in keeping in a straight line, avoiding corkscrewing, etc. with a monofin.

 

[flippinmermaiD:]

it'd be nice to HAVE a club lol, thanks sross. i think im going to play around any ways just for fun...i dont use bi-fins because i dont have any.. i've always swam with both feet together and thought bi-fins to be a little redundant if im going to swim w/ both feet. but youd be the expert here so.....

Bobdonny, im sure fish though are far more advanced in marine locomotion than we will ever be in a while. they can control a lot more i believe.. why would you ever want a lifeless prosthetic for regular daily use? just a point for a point no offense meant.

 

[bobdonny]

of course fish are better in water than humans... thats not what i said...

a fish with a moderm day technological advanvement would however most likely outperform other fish... in that scenario a sentient fish may choose the technological advancement over his genetic organic body.... so u choosing a fish like design over the most technical design we have is daft unless a matter of style.

"Blade Runner" Barred From Olympics - CBS News

 

[sross]

i've always swam with both feet together and thought bi-fins to be a little redundant if im going to swim w/ both feet.

Hey FlippinMermaid

Not an expert by any means, and not having a club or friends with monofins is no big deal. With your wonderful attitude, and a handy pool, I'm sure if you just buy a fin & start swimming, you'll get the knack in no time.

Have a ton of fun!

 

[flippinmermaiD:]

thanks again!

bob, pardon the faux pas musta misunderstood. i would definitely agree if the hypothetical fish were determined to walk the land much as we do