Hey Team!

[scubatom]

G'day guys!

I have read a few threads on contractions, but I am unable to find my answer..

I have recently started concentrating on my breath hold. When hunting I can hold my breath for max 1 minute 10 at about 10 meters and then the pain really starts to kick in. I have tried relaxing and using hand symbols to tak my mind off it. I do breath ups and ect.

I feel like I really need to breath but i think i could push past it. Im only 24 and im pretty fit, so i should be able to hold it for longer.. Even when training out of the water im scared to hold it for too long :S

I should really go and do a course!

any help would be awesome!

Thanks

 

[scubatom]

P.S save the tigers!

 

[J Campbell]

You said that even out of water your are "scared to hold it too long". You can overcome this fear with by practicing. Keep in mind that breath holding out of water, laying in your bed will not harm you, even if it feels real bad. Also breath holding does not "hurt", it's just the urge to breath becomes powerful. Practice this: when you feel you can't go longer just say to yourself, "I can do 5 more seconds" - and then do it. Then after 5 seconds, do another 5 seconds, etc.
A large part is relaxation and you will only really be able to relax by practicing until breath holding becomes second nature - even boring. Read about breath ups, relaxation.
Get a phone app such "iholdbreath" for iphone - these have O2 and CO2 tables. They provide a sort of goal for you to do a series of breath holds and measure your progress.
NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH IN THE WATER BY YOURSELF. Have a spotter right there standing beside you (a lifeguard is NOT a spotter).NEVER DIVE ALONE.

 

[scubatom]

Thanks alot that is some really good information. Just say (out of water) i said stuff it im gonna push through the pain (urge to breath) how long could you go? is this what makes you hold you breath for longer? or does the urge get less the more you push your limits?

 

[J Campbell]

How long could you go? Hard to say - depends on many factors; level of training and experience, relaxation, your personal lung volume, body temp, etc. In the FII level 1 freedive class they have a 3 minute target that most reach in the first pool training session. If you really are new to breath hold techniques I'd say learning breathe up and relaxation are your first goals.
Yes, you must push through what you call "the pain" - after you do that one or two times you will lose the fear because you will realize that it really is not painful - just a mental block - mind over matter. What is your personal best, dry? I'll' send an O2 table generated from my app.

 

[J Campbell]

Also, in answer to your other question - does urge get less..? YES! With practice, you find yourself holding longer until the first urge comes. As you develop CO2 tolerance the comfortable part of the breath hold becomes longer - although if you are going for a max there is always a struggle at the end.

 

[scubatom]

I understand. Thank you.
It is hard for me, I am an australian living in Italy so I dive alone, I never push myself too hard (thats why i was curious as how far it is safe to push through "the pain")

That would be great Mark! appreciate it. I can hold 2 mins 20 out of water laying still. As soon as i experience the pain i bail on the hold.

OK so mind over matter. Ill give it a hot tonight and see if i can pass out haha

cheers

 

[peterryder16]

Goes without saying you should never dive alone. But if you do, do not push yourself. As soon as you feel a few contractions start heading to the surface. Of course dry breath holds are fine, virtually impossible to make yourself pass out!

 

[J Campbell]

@peterryder "virtually impossible to make yourself pass out" - yeah, you can make yourself passout, just don't breathe, you will pass out - then you wake up again as your body automatically starts to breathe on its own.

 

[peterryder16]

Would your body not force you to breath before you pass out? As in wouldn't the urge to breath be too great for anyone to withstand?

 

[J Campbell]

@ scubatom - if you just bail at the first urge to breathe, then just try a little harder each time. Note the time when you bail, then add 10 secs - you can do it!

Here is the "iholdbreath" O2 table for someone who can do a 2:20 max.
Total session = 22:20. Get in bed or somewhere quiet and comfortable and relax and deep breathe slowly (not fast or hard) for a few minutes before starting. I'd recommend getting the phone app if you can (also works on ipod touch) because you will be able to focus on the breath holds and won't be distracted by having to monitor the clock or watch or whatever you are using. If you get to the last breath hold and still feel fine then just continue pushing to see if you can reach a new personal best. Let me know how it goes!

ventilate (rest breathing) 1:10
hold 1:10
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:20
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:30
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:40
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:50
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:50
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:50
ventilate
hold 1:50

 

[J Campbell]

@peter - no, if you have the willpower to overcome it, your body won't force you to breathe. It's not easy but it is mind over matter. I don't really recommend doing this though! After all, if you are passing out it means your brain doesn't have enough oxygen! Better to stop when you begin to get tunnel vision, or other odd sensations.

 

[peterryder16]

Thanks Mark, good to know. Really is all about mind over matter!

@scubatom Good luck with the tables!

 

[J Campbell]

Yes mind over matter. I think it is instructive for advanced beginners to push themselves (NOT in the water) to the point of tunnel vision, ear ringing, etc, just so they can learn that yes indeed they do have the self control, and also to be familiar with those sensations as a warning that they are close to unconciousness. The more familiar you are with your own bodies capabilities and sensations, the safer your dives will be. NEVER DIVE ALONE!

 

[scubatom]

Mark!

I just did the exercise you posted. It wasnt easy but i think i could have pushed a bit longer.. can you explain what that was and what benefits i will receive from that. Im going to download that app also.

Your a gem mate thanks for the help!

Save the tigers!

Tom

 

[J Campbell]

Good job Tom! That was an O2 table - oxygen table. The idea is to train you to get used to low oxygen levels by making hold you breath a long time and thus using most of your stored oxygen. Note the progression of the table - a constant rest period between holds, but each hold is a little bit longer, up til the end where the last few holds are at 80% of your max.
The table is calculated based on what your maximum personal best is, and the last longest breath holds are supposed to 80% of your max. The idea is to find a table that you can't quite complete successfully, and then work on that table until you CAN complete it. Then up the times on the table a bit so it is again hard to complete.
In your case you said you completed the table but it was difficult. Good job! Now increase the hold times a bit - the ibreathhold app does this for you - you just punch in higher personal best. In your case you started with 2:30 - now try 2:45.

Note that the iholdbreath app also has CO2 tables. Although CO2 tables are excellent way to train you to tolerate long breath holds - the app does a poor job of calculating tables - it makes them much too easy in my opinion.
A CO2 table is the mirror image of an O2 table - in the CO2 table you do a series of breath holds all of the same duration, but the rest time in between gets less and less with each cycle - the idea being to limit the time you have to blow off excess CO2, thus creating high levels of CO2 in your blood and thus making you more tolerant to CO2. And of course CO2 is what triggers our urge to breathe.

Which tigers are you saving?

 

[scubatom]

Thats great news Mark! I am practising both exercises now so thank you.

Just to be sure the CO2 table would look like this...


ventilate 1:20
hold 1:20
ventilate 1:10
hold 1:20
ventilate 1:00
hold 1:20
ventilate 50 secs
hold 1:20
ventilate 40 secs
hold 1:20
ventilate 30sec
hold 1:20
ventilate 30 secs
hold 1:20
ventilate 30 secs
hold 1:20

would something like that work for me?

Another question (sorry)
Can you try to explain what a contraction feels like? i honestly feel like i cant push my self any further.. maybe im just being weak lol

 

[scubatom]

Oh and sorry! I just like raising awareness that all wild tigers are endanger of becoming extinct mainly due to habitat loss and hunting/pouching. One of my best mates is very passionate about this, he is studying to make a difference! Thats why i show my support!

 

[J Campbell]

Yes, that's a pretty good example of a CO2 table. And again, if you can complete it then move onto something harder - either lengthen the breath hold a bit or shorten the ventilate intervals.

Also, some experts say don't do more than 1 of each table a day. But I say do what you are comfortable with. If it starts making you tired all day then slack off a bit. Breath holding is taxing to your body, even though it may seem a "passive" exercise.

Tigers - I think cats in general are the most beautiful animals on Earth. Yes, save them!

 

[J Campbell]

Regarding contractions - I'm not really one to provide info on contractions because I don't get them except at the end of a very long breath hold and even then they are mild. But to me they are just my abdomen tensing/contracting - like your body trying to breathe. I just "ride them" - let them go as they will.

As far as "being weak" - you just have to push through it. As long as your head is clear and you are fully conscious then you have enough oxygen - just need ignore the urge.
I mentally "transform" the urge into something pleasant - I say to myself "there's that delicious urge to breathe telling me I'm alive - I can feel it, my lungs are full, I feel healthy, virile, I can feel my heart beat, I love the wonderful sensations going going through my body, I'm a real stud, watch me do this!". Mind over matter.