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Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
Hi guys,

One of the most active forum I've seen so far and plenty of friendly people.

Yep, short intro.

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yes this is the best forum I have taken part in...looks good, is friendly to novice like me and is just good all around
So Well come!:wave
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And don't forget the cool regulars!

Welcome .... have fun with the wackos on the forum (I'm one of them ... hee hee hee)

And head on over to the 'Personal info' thread - browse through the people's less known bits and pieces, and feel free to add your own.
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Welcome to our little corner of the world. Let us know if we can be of any help, other than comic relief-- which we're quite good at.rofl

I was begining to think I had to carry this forum all by my lonesome this morning. Good morning sunshine:wave . So how did the Ab Grab go or is it next weekend? Has my little FL boy thawed out yet?rofl I know you've been bored since I haven't been here all week to talk about.
Thank U - Thank U

Hi Guys,

Thanks 4 the warm welcome. Very friendly forum indeed. In fact the jokes are great and it is not all business here, very family like.

It is so unfortunate for me that my country span over Indian Ocean, Pacific Ocean, South China Sea and so many other local seas which should have great hunting potential but I am in the capital city and having the worst , most destructed and most polluted marine area. The better hunting area is rather far.

The closest hunting ( lousy ) is 40 nautical miles away and only on wrecks and FAD cause the reefs are mostly bombed out or cynide damaged. Only .......... if I started hunting 20 years ago.

I am basically a scuba hunter and still learning to freedive hunting but I turn blue at 25 feet. With the typical visibility of 15-20 feet and the lousy fish population on the reefs, I mostly do wrecks and FADs but they are deep, at least a 100 feet and some 140-170 feet. A few short weeks in a year, visibility can be good at 60 feet but not at all water level. Mostly on the surface.

To get to the Indian Ocean side from my city it takes at least 4 hours drive and 1 hr boat ride and since it is still less than 2 miles offshore, 20+ foot visibility is no guarantee. This area has longer duration of 60+ foot visibility per year but I am still learning the area. If fishes are biting there, I need to avoid lures/Rapala from the sportfisherman cause there are only 3 or 4 known- to- be-good locations, what a luck. The other good location is 120 nautical miles away and only accesible by boat, I usually go broke going to this area on my own. Lucky for me I do yachts sales ( YEP, sell only 1 or 2 yacht per 2 years in this poor country !! ) and most of the time I can tag along with my clients and chip in a bit just to avoid being thrown over board.....ha ha ha.
These potential areas are where I do my practice freedive, since I am usually a murky water hunter, I get hallucination ( I keep imagining tunas racing at me to get shot, I must have thought I am Terry Maas ) when I see visibility better than 60 feet. My distance perception usually screw up. I'm still learning.
Only in this area I can see Spanish Mackerel, Doogtooth & Yellowfin. I am dying to see a Wahoo underwater but never had the chance.

Nowadays in my murky waters I hunt only for Giant Trevally and Golden Trevally cause they are the only species around in good numbers, good fight and decent to eat. I don't like barracuda cause they are lousy to eat, possible cigutera and too easy shot most of the time. If I go to the reef, I only shoot the red grouper/cod, this is tasty to steam Chinese style. There is another species I enjoy eating, a baramundi cod ( that's what Australian call it, .... American ???? ), light brown color with black dots. Small at the mouth going bigger at the head, thin fish but rather wide upwards. Damn hard to find. In fact nowadays I refuse to shoot this docile fish cause I find their numbers in my area been going down and down. I maybe crazy but I believe in conservation too you know.

I want to learn more from you guys, especially those close to great waters like SASpearo or anyone in Hawaii. I been reading the forum well, I won't bother anyone of you with repeat questions.

However I do want you kind people to advice me on Rob Allen Rail Guns.

Here is my gun history :
I started with pneumatics, all 95 cm. I am short at 167cm, can't reach on long guns. Damaged 5 in the process cause I can cock so well & fast, I was dumb enough to pump 30% extra air to supposedly increase power. The seals always gave way to my brutal use, even the internal aluminum shooting barrels get pitting from too long immersion in sea water. My favorite was Scubapro pneu cause it has better piston material and trigger design than Mares those days. I ripped them open so often, I can service it better than the dealer. I avoid band guns those days cause they don't track target fast and never as dead accurate as the pneumatic. I even attached a bright mini torch on the barrel and can shoot fish in caves like shooting with a laser dot. I felt like Arnold Swage????? underwater. I have a JBL Magnum too but never like using it, too long and no power. I really enjoyed the Scubapro pneu. When Scubapro stop making guns for "green" reason, I was lost and have to use my JBL. I was thinking of getting the Mares Cyrano but the dealer doesn't stock major seals kit and that is a no-no. Getting pneumatic guns parts is more dificult here in my city than getting a wife.

As my skill progress and dive were deeper at the wrecks, I have to stop using pneumatics, they piss, not shoot at 100+ feet. My miss rate were higher on small targets with JBL but my friends & I were discovering more wrecks with good size giant trevally ( 10-30kg ). I lost so many JBL shafts at the wrecks untill I learn that there is an English word called "stainless steel" shooting cable, wasted money down the drain for nothing.

I thought the JBL Magnum even being not so accurate, were macho guns. Imagine 3 rubbers on it, I don't even carry more than two "rubbers" on me if were to go on a date. I even glue two sight dot similiar to a rifle on my JBL made from pencil eraser, I thought it will help me shoot like a sniper. I wish I read forums like this many-many years ago. I tried all the high power JBLs : XHD and Woody the prices don't lie but the brochure lied .........on the shooting range. Since I am mostly on scuba, I go for gill shot on the giant trevallies to make sure the spearhead anchored correctly on the hardest part of the fish. I can't guarantee a spine shot, I am not that good with JBLs and I don't get the luxury of seeing that much big G.T back then, so the gill was my favourite. In most cases both gills penetration were not possible with my JBL on 15+kg G.T, it doesn't have the punch. My group use and destroyed so many JBL-s, I got to know the JBL-s built in problems so well.

I have a friend who gave me two guns 8+ years ago. One is a Technisub Model 88 no 05. Single thick band. It has a sticker : Champione De France 1989, Mark Valentine ( La Passion De L'Apnee ). I am totally blind on French but I assume it means : Mark Valentine who has great passion for apnea use this cute Euro gun to win the France 1989 Spearfishing Championship. The other one is Mares, same size, single band. Cute too. I never could load the guns last time so they look new till today except for the bands.

Now I use only Riffes, in fact all of my friends whose JBL I fixed go for Riffe now, almost 20 of us. We all have a Standard #2 rigged to the teeth. I'm soon going to receive Standard #4 Baja also maximum rigged for greenishblue water use ( is there such a term ?? ). A friend of mine is getting a Metal Tech 3 fully rigged with 5 bands 9/16 on new aluminum muzzle. Stabilizer mini wing and 3/8 shafts with Ice Pick.

I do not yet have a good European gun or say a Rob Allen which I hear so many wonderful things about it. My question is to all you experts out there :

120-130 cm is about the longest I can probably go on R.A
Advice me on a set up which will yield maximum power and range while retaining accuracy. I also wants to use at least a 270 lbs stainless cable for shooting line.
01. How do I attach it when I see on RA website, the drilled hole on the shaft is so small ?
02. What kind of range do I get on it if rigged to the teeth ?
03. With ss cable will I ruin the accuracy big time ?
04. What shaft diameter is reccomended ?

I bet SASpearo will gladly answer this cause I know he loves his RA.

I am not after any record, I just like good engineered guns.
I always wanted to shoot a 2 meter Tuna one day but since big tuna means big sharks too, in the mean time ( say 10 years ? ) I rather meet a 1.7meter / 50kg "Tina".

I know the post is sooo long. Sorry, I am just so excited to talk to nice and knowledgeable people on the same hobby from all over the world.

You talkin to me about talkin to you?

Hey s-Tyrone! wazzup girlfren?

Hey gimme a break; in the a.m. it's hard, er, difficult to drink my coffee, scratch and type at the same time. The ab grab is this weekend, I'll be adding to the thread in a minute if I can get this blonde off my lap... :p

Well I gotta say Iya, you're probably the holder of the longest post, and that's not a bad thing at all. It's a nice thing to know of other's backgrounds and experiences- I'm hoping someday Jay will tell us about the time he came across a broken-down school bus full of catholic school girls... scrawny pervert. :chatup

That said, it sounds as though your JBL needs new and/or stronger bands. If you have access to a shop there or a catalog, you can order new bands or the material to make them. The 5/8" bands I made for my Magnum, will pretty much put a 3/8 shaft through anything short of a phone pole at 15 feet. 'Course it takes two hands to squeeze the trigger...;)

I started diving when pnumatic guns where all the rage, and as you've found, if you keep sand out of the barrels and keep from going apeshit with the pressures, they'll do a good job. They still have their place, it's just I don't know where.

It sounds like you're on the right track with the Riffe's. I have a Metal Tech 3 and it's just a bazooka. :inlove

The Rob Allen is a sweet tool and I think sometimes we forget that that's what they are. They're also damn affordable and you'll see them all over, being used by knowlegable types. And then there's Riann.:confused:

There's athread here going on about RA's and some other guns, Gun Comparison. Check it out and go take a look at the hybrid guns that are big in Hawaii. Then go get a Riffe.:thankyou
Rob Allen .... mmmmmmm

120-130 cm is about the longest I can probably go on R.A
Advice me on a set up which will yield maximum power and range while retaining accuracy. I also wants to use at least a 270 lbs stainless cable for shooting line.
01. How do I attach it when I see on RA website, the drilled hole on the shaft is so small ?
02. What kind of range do I get on it if rigged to the teeth ?
03. With ss cable will I ruin the accuracy big time ?
04. What shaft diameter is reccomended ?

OK. There's something that RA manufactures that basically holds the bands in the center of the gun - in other words, if you've got a 180cm gun, you can pull it back halfway and then rest / shift your grip. Pretty nifty, cheap as well.

I've put the RA's 6.5mm shaft through a 2 inch pine board, using only two rubbers. The best setup for a RA is a two rubber, and then go for either a 6.5mm plated or a 7mm stainless spear. Be warned though, that the 7mm is a LOT heavier, thus making it slower etc etc etc.

I've found quite a few guys who couldn't load the single band on my 130cm RA - it's quite a tough pull. And just a little uncomfortable for shorties - I'm 1.72m, so I've resorted to a double-shift method ... works well, but needs some practice to get right.

Can you give some info on why you want to use ss as shooting line? I can't think of any good reasons ... If you still want to attach it, you can use a bungee setup. Make, ebg, borrow or steal a 15cm bungee, attach that to the hole, and then have your line clipped to the other end. QED.

Range - on a single rubber 120cm, you'd get about 15ft range (usable range) and with a double rubber you'd go to about 25ft. More than enough.

SS cable - this'll ruin your accuracy big time. It's heave, has lots of drag, is not smooth surfaced, spiral outer etc etc etc.... basically a bad idea in my books.

My setup is quite simple: I've got the RA (I've got three now), with a lanyard clip at the back. Then I've got a 6.5mm spear, with some heavy monofilament line crimped to it. I've got 3 to 4 wraps of this on my gun, ending in a short bungee that keeps the mono attached to the line clip at the back. At the same end as the bungee, I've got another bungee - this one ranges between 10 and 30m, and this goes to the rest of my floats.

So, once fired, there is nothing attaching the spear to the gun or to me - I can let the gun go, it will float, and the swim up and grab the floats to fight the fish .... QED ...

Cool. Any more questions, just shoot ...
Riaan C
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Welcome , neighbor !
If you want good results on wahoo and tuna I recommend a 130 + railgun with two 16mm. rubbers and a breakaway such as my compatriot S.A. suggested .Using a long bungee in front of the first buoy is my preferred option , I like a more true feel of the fish when playing it on the line . A small bungee on the spear attachment line helps keep the correct tension .
I use Dyneema rather than mono , its way strong and very resistant to abrasion .Mono nicks easily .Stay away from cable ,its gonna wind U up:t 6.5 mm spear works best ,aim from slightly above and behind .
120 /130 is a good length for Ignobilis ,one 20 mm rubber with 7mm spear does nicely . here you want no bungees to keep the fish from reefing you .
Keep us posted , its great to get input from all over
I might be looking for work in your country next year , will I have any hassles bringing my four guns in ?
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Guys............U R just great guys .........

At least I know that I am in the right forum. If anyone can tolerate my long post they must be good guys.

I suppose u don't shoot so much fish due to your location.No worry. I assure U that England make the finest scuba tank charged airgun/pellet gun in the world. Shooting a fly at 25 meters with these guns are not a challenge.

Icarus Pacific & Jay Styron,
Devoted members. Anyone who read my post in full must be a patient guy.

I read almost all of the previous post on this forum for info sake. As I said I don't want 2 waste ur precious time, I read gun comparison and so on. If you use 2 hands to pull ur JBL trigger with extra strong bands, I will say I need a hammer to do it. Ha ha ha.

I like stainless steel cable cause shipwrecks are so sharp, even 400 lbs cable sometime break easy. I tried 1,000 lbs Kevlar but coated stainless steel work best. If the angle & force of pull is correct from a 15kg+ fish, a 400 lbs s.s cable will snap easy. This is my experience, may be different to yours. As I said I only find decent sized fish on wrecks and FAD-s. Rusty sharp steel is my main enemy.

I think I read some of ur info. U are in the dive related service, correct ? Indonesia is kind of broke after the Asian 1997 crisis but I will do some home work for you.

Will reply to all of U soon. Now I am kind of sleepy..................now

Hi Iya, I am not much of a spearfisherman yet due to no access, but will be moving to Jakarta in August....maybe you can show me a few things, yes? I have a gun that I want to bring with me also, so I'm interested in the legal issue of that too.
Welcome to a great forum with a great bunch of people. Sometimes we disagree on things, but usually with respect and humour.....especially Icarus (Sven), otherwise known as the Jerry Seinfeld of apnea hunting ;)
Erik Y.

Whattsssuuppp Svenman,

First of all they weren't catholic, and after they started talking about sacrificing male body parts(not in a good way):eek: I was outta there. I think they were going to a Gloria Stienum convention:duh .
As for the Flower Gardens, great place to sight see but not as many fish as I expected, although we did get video of a black grouper that would probably push 40#+. The thing that gets me is they allow commercial and rec. fishing there but not spearfishing:hmm . What kind of logic is that?
Iya, its good to see that you care enough to find out all you can about this(dare I say "habit"), because thats what it becomes:) . I'd be glad to trade some wahoo for a dogtooth or nice yellowfin! IMHO I'd give mono another few tries as your shooting line, as SA said it'll kill your longrange accuracy. I know some people use it on their mega blue water guns but they're using alot of bands and a heavy shaft anyway. I would concentrate on getting the best shot possible. A good rule of thumb is when you can see their eye clearly then they're close enough to shoot. Then go fot the highest probability kill shot. Instead of the gillplate maybe a spot between the eye and top of the gillplate, there you should hit the brain or spine.
About the RA's, I can't help you there but I might try to get my buddy :wave SASpearo to help me select one this summer. From what I've heard they're great guns. I use a 110cm esclapez primarily and am happy w/ the results. The euro style guns just take a little getting used to. Keep up the good questions, it keeps us on our toes, (if Sven can stay off his back long enoughrofl )
...it's a job.

Man, I can feel the love... does this look infected?

Iya- leave the cable to the few feet from your spear shaft, and that's it. Do not, don't and this means you, have a continuous length of cable for the entire line. I know how it is when the fish takes your line and you around a sharp outcropping. Be glad the line parts. Having a few feet, OK, meters of cable at the spaer end of things is fine, and that's with a big caveat, (that's pronounced "Kav-E- at", Jay ;) ) The requirement is that you carry a pair of dykes (oh man...) or wirecutters to snap that stuff if and when, and it'll be when before if, it snags on you or just plain snags you. The time to go looking for the cutters is not when you start to see stars or the black tunnel, (ask Erik :confused: ) so have 'em on the gun and on your person. Anderson here will show you where he puts his dykes...

Hey, while we're all feeling warm and fuzzy, maybe I should start a "help Sven find a job thread..."

much love folks.

sven DB's card carrying funky Karma-ist
hiya Iya

welcome aboard!

i'm the infamous top-secret spearo-boy who's been up to his ears in work and not fish. :waterwork i'm happy to see that my cohorts have been so kind as to welcome you with open appendages. ;)

keep up the questions cause even most of the die-hards will tend to pick up something new from some of the responses. lord knows, i learn something new here just about everytime i'm logged on. (granted, most of it's about icarus pondering sexual preferences, riaan trying to smoke a cig underwater and flicking the butts at great whites, erik trying to win the nobel peace prize for posting more than all of us combined, and señor styron arguing the positive affects of using laura ashley patterns for camo suits)

I'm Back !!!!!!!!!!

Damn those alcohols............. I was rather drunk on my last post so can't make longer ones to beat my second post.

Thank you sire "the forum keeper", I am not worthy..........not worthy.

Before you read my reply take a big bowl and put it under your chin, this will keep your drool at bay. he he he. I checked ur profile and which job will you do in Jakarta ? Anyway any expat stationed in Jakarta by any foreign company should do well, I mean money wise. If you are going to be a social worker, remove the bowl, just get a tissue, cause I assume you will subsidize your own salary partially.

Jakarta is safe & quite fun city. Night life is good and if you are single and blond............OK put the bowl back under the chin........ you will like it. You probably won't want to get married. As for your gun just bring it, no problem. I'll show you around, just email me your contact info all the way to your shoe size ...., underwear size not required......so that we can comm better.

If ur boss give you free housing & free car in Jakarta and pay you anything above US$3,000 and you need not send anything for the folks back home ............get a bigger bowl under your chin,boy !!.... You will be able to afford a chaeffur (driver) and 2 servants/housemaids. If your house is big, u can also afford a gardener. I'll teach you how to do things with your mouth not your hands. Driver !!!! ..........drive me to this club....and you my housekeeper, have fresh towels ready when I come home dead drunk. This is what life is all about. Abriapnea should know this too cause Thailand is more or less like Indonesia, I mean cheap labor wise.

Forget the western idea of do-it-yourself everything. I am sure Queen Elizabeth doesn't do her own laundry.

For US$200 you will get a bottle of Jack Daniel, a private Karaoke room and two nice public relation ladies from 8PM to 1AM to serve you drinks, towels & a very big drool bowl if ever need one.
( if any forum readers are girls forgive me......... ) The night just began.........Next stop will be "JJ" a popular bar/disco for expat which will began life only after 1AM.

Save some money and go to the famous island of Bali, 1 hr plane ride . This is a country in a country. There are hotels from ranging El Cheapo to "I-been-robbed" catagory. This is pure tourist zone, I feel like the foreigner if I go to Bali at high season.

Sorry Erik, I got to stop now. Your bowl is already full.

Will you be a diving instructor here in Indonesia ? I am also a PADI instructor but no more teaching status, I took it just for the fun of it years ago. I am the only instructor who points at marine life to my students and give hand signs :

"This is delicous.......Aha......this one too.........my my..... this you got to try........."

4 guns should be OK cause the custom officers don't really bother water sport people especially foreigners.

Dive operators who can hire expats are usually expats owned operation. The best area are always the most off-road type. If you study Indonesian map, there are so much unexplored areas and for total numbers of marine life we are the champion. To me I only care to look at delicous ones. I don't really know much operators outside Jakarta. You will probably be based out of Jakarta in some damn remote area where your girlfriend name is called "mosquito". These top dive areas are mostly expat operation and they don't even do local marketting, they cater to worlwide divers. I can give you some website link if u want.
Bali is quite popular diving area, something like Phuket ....supermarket. Manado is another world class diving area but as far as I know the local operators can't afford to hire foreign instructors or dive masters. You must remember that in 1997 crash, Indonesia was taking the most beating. Even today we are still minus 400% in exchange rate than we were in 1997.
Salary has only gone up 60% or so. Simply explained, any foreign made products in Indonesia cost 4 times more now than in 1997.
And Indonesia still imports tons of everything. One simple example, my Riffe Ice Pick spearhead cost US$83.00. This is what I pay my driver a month in equivalent local currency. Sometime I wonder how the hell he survive.

Without my clients, I will most likely never dive in good waters cause yacht operation is expensive. I tag along and become chief engineer, I am decent with diesel and electronics.

I am kind of sad over the crisis cause all of my equipment is US dollar based and spearfishing suddenly becomes 4 times more expansive. If this shit crisis happened in the U.S, I bet every spearo will start to help to shoot each other just to get out of the misery of actual life. He he he.

OK I stop now. I'll be back tonight my local time. I am still having a hang over now.

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