how deep can I go without squeeze?

[Lil Dragonfly]

Well, for the first time in over 10 years of freediving I finally managed to figure out the art of non-valsalva equalizing!!!

How deep can an untrained freediver go without getting squeeze?

 

[demasoni]

Hard to say. I know people that have gotten squeezed in a pool doing a negative and people getting squeezed at all sorts of depths, and some people never get squeezed. The answer I guess is IT ALL DEPENDS...

Read this : freediving - squeeze

 

[Lil Dragonfly]

Oh

So if I hit the ocean tomorrow, there's no way of knowing what depth I shouldn't go past?

 

[Herup]

But come gratulations Lil! You´ll at least be a little more sqeeze-resistant using Frenzel, put please don't push your luck and try to go slow

Very best regards
H!

 

[Lil Dragonfly]

Aww, thank you H

I have no clue how to do frenzel though. I do BTV.

 

[Herup]

Not envious at all....


Very best regards
H!

 

[cebaztian]

Hi

BTV is not an equalizing technique it is a support technique.
To get air up to the eardrums pressure has to come from mouth or lungs.
Frenzel or valsalva.
Keeping your eustachians open does not mean air will flow through them to the eardrum.

But BTV is VERY good to know, makes EQ much more easy and I think one get lots more out of valsalva and Frenzel with it.

Sebastian

 

[Herup]

Hi Lil.

I wonder to what depth have you made the BTV work compared to the nose pinch valsalva so far?

Very best regards
H!

 

[Lil Dragonfly]

Hi

BTV is not an equalizing technique it is a support technique.
To get air up to the eardrums pressure has to come from mouth or lungs.
Frenzel or valsalva.
Keeping your eustachians open does not mean air will flow through them to the eardrum.

But BTV is VERY good to know, makes EQ much more easy and I think one get lots more out of valsalva and Frenzel with it.

Sebastian

Are you sure?

During a recent scuba dive I used BTV alone and shot down to 90 feet with no trouble. (With valsalva I can never scuba dive below 15 feet. Well, I did push myself to 40 feet on scuba a handful of times, but that involved excruciating ear pain that made me feel like I was going to die...not the best idea.)

Although, for some reason every time I do BTV air shoots into my mouth. (If I try BTV while freediving with a snorkel in my mouth, oops, all my air comes out the snorkel.)

 

[Herup]

Hi Lil

In this thread Linda P (and others) has som good points to explain/understand the relations of mechanisms involved in BTV.
Looking forward to hear how it goes on the line whithout bottled air
Guess it doesn't help you in determining when squeeze is close thou...

Very best regards
H!

 

[JennyWren]

It can depend on the day and on the dive - for me I have been to 50m without squeeze, but got squeezed on a 40m when I was tense and using bad technique. Increase your depth very slowly and make sure that you stay relaxed. It's a good idea to do stretches regularly too, to increase your lung flexibility (packing and reverse packing stretches). Make sure to take it slow with those though, and if you haven't been taught how to do them safely by someone qualified, don't do it!

 

[4444]

BTV is not an equalizing technique it is a support technique.
To get air up to the eardrums pressure has to come from mouth or lungs.
Frenzel or valsalva.
Keeping your eustachians open does not mean air will flow through them to the eardrum.

I equalize with BTV without using Frenzel or Valsalva. The reason you don't need to deliberately equalize the sinus cavities is because the openings for the sinus cavities are always open. Likewise, if I open my e-tubes my ears will equalize automatically, no need to force the air towards the eardrums using the diaphragm or tongue.

 

[DivingDane]

i think you guys are misunderstanding Sebastian on this he is correct BTV is NOT an equalisation technique in its own right, it assists other tehcniques to become more efficient.

just opening the tubes will not benefit anything without having air pressure behind it to equalise with. and that can only come from 3 places.
- Valsalva (lung compression, blowing from the lungs)
- frenzel (pressure applied by the tongue)
- water pressure (from flooding)

so EVERYbody equalises with one of these 3 core methods, but how you initialise the EQ is where the major differences arrive:
- Nose pinching
- BTV
- Edmonds
-ear wiggle

so yes you are ding BTV for example like my girlfriend however you are either doing frenzel or Valsalve to get the air to the right place to start with, in her case originally to valsalva with BTv and now after training in egypt she is doing Frenzel with BTV.

DD

 

[cdavis]

DD, right and wrong.

Right, BTV only opens the tubes, pressure must come from somewhere to push air into the tubes.

Wrong: In the right circumstances, it does not require any of the mechanisms you list (except maybe "Edmonds." What the heck is that?) In shallow water, roughly 40 ft for me, simply relaxing the chest and diaphragm provides enough pressure to use BTV. The mask easily contains the small amount of overpressure. Effectively, it just like frenzel against the mask except your tongue and throat don't move. I don't have to do anything except open the valves. I think to make this work requires strong muscles around the Eustachian valves, good voluntary control of them and big tubes.

Connor

 

[cdavis]

Another influence. As you descend, dropping pressure in the middle ear stretches the eardrum inward. If you open the Etubes, the contracting eardrum will suck air into the middle ear as long as the pressure inside the mouth is at least equal, as it will be until somewhere above RV, affected by head up/head down, etc. Again, big tubes help.

Connor

 

[cebaztian]

Are you sure?

During a recent scuba dive I used BTV alone and shot down to 90 feet with no trouble.

Your lungs are full when inhaling through mouthpiece = pressure in lungs = air moves upwards, and when eustachians are open = equalization.

If diving above FRC, and I guess above RV - then BTV can work in itself. I think we all are not really aware of what we are doing when. I think we apply all kinds of wierd stuff shifting between lots of supportive techniques.

Sebastian

 

[cdavis]

If diving above FRC, and I guess above RV - then BTV can work in itself. I think we all are not really aware of what we are doing when. I think we apply all kinds of wierd stuff shifting between lots of supportive techniques.

Sebastian

Absolutely correct for me. BTV is basic, but I normally also use a variety of Frenzel and valsalva motions dependent on depth and how clear my air passages are. It takes a bunch of concentration to figure out exacty what is going on; normally, I just do it. As I've gotten deeper with FRC, it has started to make a difference what technique is used. Near my depth limit for equalization, using a valsalva motion precipitates a squeeze.

Connor

 

[DivingDane]

Cdavis, understand accept i would have though the process of "loosening" the chest would really be considered Valsalva becausee the pressure even though small is being provided my the lungs not the tongue or throat (frenzel) but could be wrong.

i've always considered that if the air for eq is coming from lung pressure then its valsalva and in your case the activation method is BTV.... which unfortunatly i cant do.....

what you are doing sounds identical to what my girlfriend is doing, no actual effort as such is being used but the air is still being provided by lung pressure.

Edmonds is another activation method than involves jaw clicking along with another movement i cant do to activate the equalisation, know a couple of guys that dive this way, lots of small fast eqalisations and in one persons case its continious eq all the way past 45m on FRC!

DD

 

[cdavis]

On thought, you are right. Simply relaxing is closer to valsalva than frenzel. I'd always considered valsalva to involve intentional tightening of the chest and diaphragm to raise air preasure for equalization, but the result of relaxing is the same, just less pressure.

I love the way this kind of discussion makes me thing analytically.

Connor

 

[rovanpera]

Take care at dephts where you start feeling negative pressure on your chest, usually this is on 20-30m range on a full inhale.