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how do you protect a good idea.

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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LOLO

New Member
Sep 1, 2005
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Ok folks I have a question for the someone out there. I have a great idea for something that has to do with freediving in general, it is a piece of gear that would be cheaper than anything else on the market, and very simple, thats the problem, how do I keep everyone from ripping off the idea? Its one of those ideas where everyone goes DUH! why didn't I think of that, and I need some advice. I really don't want to sell it to a company but market it on my own. Any suggestions?
thanks...
Nick
 
Nick,

Here is some advice from someone who has gotten a patent and started a few profitable businesses:

Decide if a patent is worth it or not, cost about $5k depending on country if you do most of the work yourself. If yes, get a patent, it may or may not work, but then you will know how to get patent so $5k spent well on education if nothing else.

If not worth a patent, this isn't bad news, it won't be worth it probably for someone to "steal" your idea then or even try to patent what you want to make. Go ahead and make some and see if your friends will buy them. Funny thing about friends, they are in general very very supportive of all sorts of whacky things, but they don't usually want to buy things from you, thier friend. So if they do buy it from you that means its really great. If you can't get your friends to buy this thing you have made probably will be hard to sell to others too so maybe give up or change ideas. The great thing about this path is that you don't spend $ on advertising or "give" your idea away to everyone before its ready, simply make that thing you want to make and try to sell them to your close freediving friends.

Cheers Wes
 
thanks! that is sound advice. especially since most of my friends are tighter than a ducks butt when its money!
nick
 
My experience from trying to sell to the freediving market: don't bother, you will lose money, no matter how good your idea is. Freedivers are among the cheapest of all consumers, they expect something for nothing. Most freedivers will not even use a new piece of gear, if you give it to them for free.

Try to adapt your invention to another market.

Nevertheless, if you use the example of fluid goggles, which I originally brought to market in 1998, you could say this was a 'good idea' and someone might want to copy it. It was never patented in any way, and it probably could not have been, as there were weak attempts at this idea in the 1980's (of which I was unaware when I 'invented' them).

I sold the goggles from 1998 until now (2007), and during this period, one company DiveFree, brought out a competitor goggle for a period of around 6 months. They thought that they would enter the 'lucrative' fluid goggle market, only to realize that sales were extremely poor. In fact, they had stolen a good market share, but there was little or no market to start off with. They were so disappointed with sales that they realized it was never worth their time, so they stopped making the product. I continued selling goggles, even though it has never been worth it-- I do it more like a service to the community, and during long periods the goggles are out of stock when I don't have the motivation to make more.

When I entered the freediving computer market with the F1 in 2005, the true colors of the freediving consumer market came to light. There could be no denying reality after a competition in Hawaii in 2006, when the F1 was offered as the official gauge. Only one competitor would wear the computer. The others said it was too bulky and ugly, even though it was barely larger than a D3, and much small than a Mares Apneist which had been the staple computer of the community for years. When you can't even give something away for free, it is time to look for a new market, which is what I did, and what you should do too.
 
Eric, while your comments on the likelyhood of making money from freedivers is based on experience, I personally find offensive your comment "Freedivers are among the cheapest of all consumers, they expect something for nothing" There were a number of us who supported you buying the F1 product early in it's concept stage before it was finished and doing all we could on forums like this and in our local freediving worlds to demo the product and create interest. One of your current preorder X1 buyers has come from me doing exactly that as you are well aware.
 
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Sorry Andy, you and several others did show great support for the F1 and the concept, and were certainly the exceptions. Personally I have probably spent $10K+ on freediving equipment, ranging from 25 monofins to a zillion wetsuits and gauges. So freedivers who are willing to pay for stuff do exist, but from a business perspective, they represent such a small fragment that they are negligible. Even Performance Freediving had an almost impossible time convincing freedivers to pay $495 USD (!!!) for a freediving course. The typical reaction to $495 for the PFI course was something like 'are you insane?' For that reason PFI struggled tremendously in the first few years, until word of mouth finally won over.

For those interested, after spending $300K to develop the F1, a total of 15 freedivers purchased the product over the 1.5 year period it was on the market. This is from a market of about 40,000 freedivers. One further example was the Apnea Academy event in Egypt in May 2006. There were 150 freedivers at the event, and virtually all got to try the F1. Not a single one decided to purchase it.

Again, thanks immensely for your support Andy (and the rest of my customers), but the truth is hard to deny for the majority.
 
No worries Eric and I was considering removing my post as on reflection I think you are spot on and I know you were not including the few of us that did support you in your comments. From my own experience importing monofins for freedivers, organising a Seb course in Sydney and attempts at bringing PFI to Aus, I came across the same reluctance from freedivers to spend money on their sport. Perhaps my happiness to do so comes from my tech diving days where it was as much about the gear as the diving. rofl

My previous post was an over-reaction
 
Well, Whats your Idea then LOLO? I myself would LOVE to spend all kinds of money on freediving gear...The problem is, is that I don't have money to be able to buy high end equipment...I LOVE FREEDIVING and SPEARFISHING!!! But unfortunately the fact of the matter is that I have to rely on cheap sub-par gear or buy used. My wifes past medical bills and the IRS have me strapped for cash. Not to mention twins on the way.

If you don't want to tell us I understand...But c'mon man...I sure could use whatever it is I'm sure! ESPECIALLY if it is not expensive!

Beleive me...If I could or If I ever can...I would EASILY buy a few ELIOS wetsuits - A camera and housing - A 400 dollar speargun - a DIVE COMPUTER...And ALL kind of other FRESH gear. I finally ended up buying a 70 dollar used speargun...Got a deal from a friend I met HERE on Deeperblue. Before that I used a fiberglass polespear - AND DID WELL WITH IT! My wetsuit is a size or TWO too big. And I put off a phone bill to get my Cressi 2000 HF's! Some of us freedivers are CHEAP by NECCESSITY!

BTW - If your idea is REALLY that awesome...Go for it! I have SEVERAL inventions that I said "someday" to...Now they are ON THE MARKET!!!!! I did'nt even have the money for a patent though...Still pisses me off when i see the WETSUIT for beer bottles! It was a big thing in the 80's...Saw them in almost EVERY gas station or liquor store. THAT WAS MY INVENTION!

P.S. - I used to surf alot and drink a few beers afterwards. I got tired of my beer getting warm so fast...So I'd just pull off the top of my wetsuit and put the beer in my sleeve while drinking it...Not to mention we were'nt allowed to have bottles on the beach! I thought...."when I get outta the Navy I'm gonna make a zip-up little wetsuit for beer bottles...I never did do it...Then one day I saw them in a gas station!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yup....I bought one...It was an EXACT duplication of an idea I had YEARS before....There have been other ideas too...One of them is currently being sold by ALL of the MAJOR hunting/sporting goods dealers here in th U.S. Again..It is EXACTLY what my idea WAS a few years ago. So simple it'd make you hit yourself with a hammer! I snoozed...I lost...AGAIN!

As they say... Ya snooze...Ya lose!

Maybe if I woulda MOVED on my IDEAS (no money to do it) I WOULD HAVE ALL THE FANCY GEAR I DREAM OF TODAY!

But life is good...despite of my finances...In many ways I consider myself to be one of the richest men on earth! I have my own successful SMALL business, I have my health...A wonderful wife..Two great sons..And twins on the way. What more could a man want. Everyday I see plenty of people who have much less than me. I am grateful for everything...everyday!
 
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Eric, while your comments on the likelyhood of making money from freedivers is based on experience, I personally find offensive your comment "Freedivers are among the cheapest of all consumers, they expect something for nothing" There were a number of us who supported you buying the F1 product early in it's concept stage before it was finished and doing all we could on forums like this and in our local freediving worlds to demo the product and create interest. One of your current preorder X1 buyers has come from me doing exactly that as you are well aware.

Mate

Everytime I advertise a freediving course in the UAE I get asked for discount, or even, why do charge 'cos there is no cost for scuba tanks involved and I have my own gear??? I explain the boat cost and the guy will say, well i have my own boat so why charge? rofl Certification, no need, just teach me i dont need certifying :vangry

I even find with scuba divers, they are always asking for discount on prices and want things quicker, cheaper and free stuff thrown in.

My rant for the day.
 
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it's a new sport, to me and many others, but it is growing and will continue to grow. I started a company with some buddies in 1999/2000 based on SMS messaging, we spent millions and had only a few users. 5 years after bailing out the market grew and is now massive. innovators are always ahead of their time. good luck with your new adventures eric.
 
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