How much hyperventilating is considered safe and respectable for recreational freediving? I suppose max it out if your going for the world record maybe but at what point would you say "im not diving with that dude he hyperventilates too much and its dangerous". Im not looking for an exact number of breaths of course because theres so many variables just maybe some examples of the limit some of you will do it on a dive. Serious record dives, recreational or other.
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How much is too much?
- Thread starterFreeRestriction
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Thread Status: Hello
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you should not do it at all. there are no advantages to it. Its like this:
- hyperventilate a little - early part of dive feels easier - contractions start from nowhere, dive ends dangerously
OR
- don't hyperventilate at all - dive may feel a little hard at the start - contractions come in smooth and clear - you know where you are in the dive and finish it safely
It's clear which is better right?
Try to do all your breathing before a dive just as you are breathing now, looking at the PC
- hyperventilate a little - early part of dive feels easier - contractions start from nowhere, dive ends dangerously
OR
- don't hyperventilate at all - dive may feel a little hard at the start - contractions come in smooth and clear - you know where you are in the dive and finish it safely
It's clear which is better right?
Try to do all your breathing before a dive just as you are breathing now, looking at the PC
Interesting. Well ive never hyperventilated before a dive but today i tried it for the first time before a dry static and had clear beneficial results. My contractions came on later and were the same or lighter when they arrived. Not sure if that transfers into a dive or not though.
Bottom line is i can hold my breath longer atleast in static when i hyperventilate. Its my understanding this is the case with most people. Maybe im mistaken though. Is the hyperventilating only beneficial for me because its making up for my poor technique otherwise?
I think there was this quote i heard somewhere... but i can't remember exactly what it is...
All I know (as a newb) is that when you hyperventilate you're attempting to oxygenate yourself and trying to keep CO2 levels low in the body... not sure if the hyperventilation reflex from fear or anxiety is meant for that but that's what it does... sorta.
I doesn't really oxigenate you at all, at least not any more than regular breathing does. and if it does it's a negligable amount, what it DOES do is lower CO2 levels. and you kinda need that CO2 as an indicator for your limits. It's a little bit like going into a fight and turning off all your pain receptors. You could probably win the fight but you could potentially not know you're about to die from damage delt to you. the lowering of CO2 is like turning off your body's alarm system. without it you don't know if something's wrong or not, which is why it's much more likely to end in blackout.
I learned this really early in my research on freediving... it DOES work, but it's not really worth the risk of possibly dying, it also tends to accelerate your heart beat even more which is fairly a bad thing if you're doing freediving... again, I'm a newb, and this is just what i've heard.
All I know (as a newb) is that when you hyperventilate you're attempting to oxygenate yourself and trying to keep CO2 levels low in the body... not sure if the hyperventilation reflex from fear or anxiety is meant for that but that's what it does... sorta.
I doesn't really oxigenate you at all, at least not any more than regular breathing does. and if it does it's a negligable amount, what it DOES do is lower CO2 levels. and you kinda need that CO2 as an indicator for your limits. It's a little bit like going into a fight and turning off all your pain receptors. You could probably win the fight but you could potentially not know you're about to die from damage delt to you. the lowering of CO2 is like turning off your body's alarm system. without it you don't know if something's wrong or not, which is why it's much more likely to end in blackout.
I learned this really early in my research on freediving... it DOES work, but it's not really worth the risk of possibly dying, it also tends to accelerate your heart beat even more which is fairly a bad thing if you're doing freediving... again, I'm a newb, and this is just what i've heard.
Jaime, quite a good display for a "newb" as you say in you first two paragraphs. But on the last I must correct you, it really does NOT work. It's just a short trick to easier (but dangerous) dives for beginners. There are tons of threads here about the subject matter, and some great graphs etc to prove the point, but again, it really does not work. You can do longer breatholds without hyperventilation than with.
There is an interesting transition phase I went through as a spearo. I would always breathe too much (if course, I was not hyperventilating in my mind..). Then one day I realized I really was. I deliberately did the "watching TV breathe up" after that, and the dives became very hard to the same depth. After some adaptation period though (like, 6 months?) they became as easy or easier than they were before, and of course, a lot safer.
There is an interesting transition phase I went through as a spearo. I would always breathe too much (if course, I was not hyperventilating in my mind..). Then one day I realized I really was. I deliberately did the "watching TV breathe up" after that, and the dives became very hard to the same depth. After some adaptation period though (like, 6 months?) they became as easy or easier than they were before, and of course, a lot safer.
While the description you gave is ok, it doesn't really paint the whole picture about hyperventilation - there are other factors at play which is why it doesn't 'work' eg look up the Bohr effect and you'll see that CO2 concentration affects the ability to release O2 for your body to use.
Anyway, it really depends what 'works' means - yes it does make holds a bit easier, it is dangerous and results in shorter holds (you will blackout sooner). It feels beneficial if you are starting and are not used to high CO2 but that's a big part of freediving training so you are not really helping yourself in any way by doing it, just picking up a bad (dangerous) habit that will hinder your freediving further down the line.
Anyway, it really depends what 'works' means - yes it does make holds a bit easier, it is dangerous and results in shorter holds (you will blackout sooner). It feels beneficial if you are starting and are not used to high CO2 but that's a big part of freediving training so you are not really helping yourself in any way by doing it, just picking up a bad (dangerous) habit that will hinder your freediving further down the line.
This info is very valuable and im glad you guys took the time to respond. Not a suprising question im sure but how does a newb get beyond the natural bad feelings of high co2, low o2 levels to match or exceed the performance seen by masking these feelings through hyperventilating?
So co2 and not o2 tables will help me push the feeling to breath longer into my breath hold?
I read from another user that a beginner with some instruction can usually do 4-5 minute statics... What am i missing? I feel like i was born to freedive. Ive been swimming underwater laps in pools holding my breath since i was able to swim. Even back then i was fighting contractions, i just didnt know what it was back then. My lung capacity is 6.1 liters. Obvously none of the above guarantees a good freediver but there must be something im missing. My best wet static with no breathup is only 3:14. Im really hoping the course i take next month will give me some insight to help me improve.
I've seen many beginners - I would say that 4mins for a beginner is really the odd exception, not the rule. For the average person, 4 mins is a pretty good time to achieve, even after a decent amount of practice.
Just to put it into perspective, 4 mins is the minimum time you need to be able to do to become an AIDA instructor - of course by that time, most people training to become instructors can achieve longer times but still...
CO2 tables will help you much more in the beginning. After a while you can start doing the odd O2 table but I would still probably spend 75% of my time doing CO2 tables and the rest on O2 or FRC...
Just to put it into perspective, 4 mins is the minimum time you need to be able to do to become an AIDA instructor - of course by that time, most people training to become instructors can achieve longer times but still...
CO2 tables will help you much more in the beginning. After a while you can start doing the odd O2 table but I would still probably spend 75% of my time doing CO2 tables and the rest on O2 or FRC...
Ok that makes me feel a little better. So co2 tables it is... Given my PB time whats a good co2 table hold time?
You usually start co2 tables with half you PB, but it depends a lot on how and long you breath in between holds. Just try for yourself and see what is fine for you.
But remember, the more you hyperventilate the less effective the tables will be, since you want to keep all you co2
But remember, the more you hyperventilate the less effective the tables will be, since you want to keep all you co2
I'm only a beginner too but someone more experienced than I am said to me recently not to get hung up on the numbers at this stage, and I tend to agree. If you focus so much on doing longer and longer dive times/distances in the early stages of learning, you can get in to trouble. As many here have mentioned. I would rather increase my times slowly but with good technique from the start than push myself too far, too soon, and with poor technique and risk BO or worse.
The only person we should try to be competing against (IMO) is ourselves. The time one new person can do on a hold when just learning can be very different to the next one. Also I think if we are focusing on time, it kind of detracts from the purpose in a way, from the purity of it. I mean, my aim is to get the technique right, focus on being relaxed in the dive and experience the sensations and learn. I think that if I started to think about how much longer it was than the previous dive and whether I am improving fast enough then it would probably be counterproductive for me. The real competition we have is with our mind. That's my opinion as a newbie for what it's worth!
The only person we should try to be competing against (IMO) is ourselves. The time one new person can do on a hold when just learning can be very different to the next one. Also I think if we are focusing on time, it kind of detracts from the purpose in a way, from the purity of it. I mean, my aim is to get the technique right, focus on being relaxed in the dive and experience the sensations and learn. I think that if I started to think about how much longer it was than the previous dive and whether I am improving fast enough then it would probably be counterproductive for me. The real competition we have is with our mind. That's my opinion as a newbie for what it's worth!
Well in my opinion in order to progress you need to know where you are at. If you have no goals based off of others accomplishments set you have nothing to push for. Only setting personal goals based souly on your own current abilities will never help you reach your full potential. No one has ever lost a competition with themelves. This means no matter how poorly you progress you have won when you only compete with yourself. Ideally one should dive with guys who are better then them. That way your always trying to catch up rather then plateu at your comfort level. Thats how i see it.
Sure - each to his/her own. We all do what is right for ourselves and everyone's purpose and motivation is very much a personal thing.
You did ask for people's opinions and that's what we gave.
Right you are, nothing wrong with that. Based on what ive learned in this thread ill be cutting out ANY breath up at all and work on my o2 tables daily and see what comes of it.
my motivations stem from trying to achieve something first, like for the moment my goal is to reach 30 meters down and to hold my breath for a whopping 6 minutes in static. then it usually switches over to something bigger. but i don't compete with others for that sort of merit or achievement. in terms of depth i have no idea what my final goal is... since i don't care before i reach the first one, it's concentrate on the current goal, then move on to the next.
and keeping on topic.. no hyperventilating =D
and keeping on topic.. no hyperventilating =D
CO2 not O2
And Ms Mer, great post above. I, as a beginner myself, can only agree. At first I was going for the numbers and indeed within a few weeks I did 4' something. But only 1:30 of that was without contractions. So basically it was a fight. Now I don' have a clock running most of the time and I just focus on the relaxing part of the game. This is also more fun as it's more comfortable and I'm sure that with time my numbers will improve as well. But I'm not here for competition but to enjoy myself under water.