How much weight and where for DNF ?

[subaquaticus]

Up to now I had tried DNF with a pair of ankle weights tied together around my neck (2 X 0.500 kg = 1 kg) ...

I had seen an improvement in gliding comparing with no weights...

I had tried with an additional 0.500 kg around my waist... but then I could feel my legs sink...

Yesterday I bought another pair of ankle weights and did a test in a pool today...

I had then 2 kg around my neck and swam in a 1.80 m deep pool...

The improvement was amazing... I was neutral at 1.50 m... I could relax almost totally without fighting against my buoyancy...

I could feel the glide.... I managed to do 25 m in 5 strokes... Before I had not been able to do less than 6-7 strokes...

 

[subaquaticus]

I forgot to mention that in the poll you are supposed to be in swimming suit...

 

[jome]

Without a wetsuit, I'd say for most people it works best to have all in your neck (or perhaps a vest type of solution, around your shoulder blade).

With full packing, without a suit, I require about 5-6kg to be neutral. However for DNF, full packing makes swimming uncomfortable, so I usually use around 4kg and just pack less.

Most neck weights I see are maybe 0.5 to 1 kg. It's of course individual, but I would recommend people give more weight a try. When you get it just right, the difference is quite amazing.

 

[SanSan]

I would agree on the more weight. I use about 2,7kg for DNF without wetsuit. Im neutral with something about 3kg at the beginnig but then I'm negative with that much weight at the end.

 

[ggarrett]

The amount of weight needed for dynamics will vary from diver to diver depending on their body composition of muscle, fat, size, height, and even age.

I found the balance for me is a very slight positive buoyancy. This allows me to gently float up at the end. I also notice a slightly decrease in positive buoyancy as I go farther. For me, 6 lbs-6 oz, or around 3 kg. works best. I am neutral buoyant at 7 lbs, weigh from 182 lbs to 190 lbs, am 6'-1", and am 57 years old.

I have found that added weight decreased the number of strokes that I take for one length from 5 or 6 strokes/length, to 3.5 or 4 S/L. Having extra weight on the neck seems to add extra momentum that extends the glide. Neck weights can also provide a calming relaxation during dynamics.

Peace,
Glen

 

[Panos Lianos]

I use a weight vest made by seac-sub. It's very good and you can adjust the weight since it comes with 7 plates of 650grams each. I use 6 of them (so 6*650=3.9Kg), but that depends on the individual. The vest allows you to keep your neck relaxed. I wear it inside my speedo swimsuit so it doesn't move at all and I'm more hydrodynamic.

 

[subaquaticus]

I have found that added weight decreased the number of strokes that I take for one length from 5 or 6 strokes/length, to 3.5 or 4 S/L. Having extra weight on the neck seems to add extra momentum that extends the glide. Neck weights can also provide a calming relaxation during dynamics.

I wholly agree with you ! The relationship between weight and number of strokes is obvious...

If you are not perfectly neutral but positively buoyant, then you have no opportunity to relax in long glides... You must go on moving in order to FIGHT against buoyancy...

I felt it yesyerday when I switched from 1 kg around the neck to 2 kg...

With my 2 kg around the neck I felt like a bird after the stoke against the thighs... where I could enjoy gliding...

 

[subaquaticus]

I would agree on the more weight. I use about 2,7kg for DNF without wetsuit. Im neutral with something about 3kg at the beginnig but then I'm negative with that much weight at the end.

When you have 2.7 kg around your neck, at what depth are you neutral ?

I guess around 1.40 m ???

As far as I understood, it is good to be not at the bottom (friction effects) nor to close to the surface (wave effects)...

I think that the determination of the weighting should depend on the depth of the pool...

Supposing you are in a pool with constant depth 3.50 m ; you may allow yourself to be a little deeeper and thus less weighted than if you were in a pool with 2 m depth ; am I right ?

 

[ggarrett]

If you are not perfectly neutral but positively buoyant, then you have no opportunity to relax in long glides... You must go on moving in order to FIGHT against buoyancy...

When I wrote a "very slight... buoyancy", the key words are "very slight." This is so slight that if I do not take a full lung full, I sink. As I consume more oxygen and the air volume in my body decreases, I also lose buoyancy. Some times, I find myself brushing the bottom so I end up swimming upward.

I do enjoy very long glides, usually 8 to 9 meters off the wall without stroking. I estimate that I glide more than half of a 25 meter length. I enjoy just going limp and almost asleep during both glide portions of my stroke. As near as I can tell from recent video at CAFA WRC, I am streamlining almost horizontal.

Another phenomena- just as my weight varies from day to day, so does my buoyancy. Since I use the same weight each day, there's some variation but not much.

When I first began, I did fight buoyancy but that is long gone now. A person who is positive buoyant will swim with their feet higher than their head. They move through the water angled head down-feet up because they are really swimming downward toward the bottom in order to counteract their buoyancy.

Again, it's an individual condition and preference. This weighting works for me.

Peace,
Glen

 

[SanSan]

On friday I got my new neck weight that I had made just for our national competition we had this weekend. It was great. Again I used 2,7Kg that makes me neutral boyant at 2m. The deepth of the pool was 2,2m but i swimm at about 1,5m so i was slightly positive at the start and then neutral at the end. I would say that a bit positive at the start is OK as long U don't have to swimm downwards and u remain in the totaly horizontal position so u can glide long.
My new neckweight did the job and I did my ne PB on our most important competition 82m . I just have to make it a little tighter because it bumped me a few times on my chin. I belive a little smaller so a bit more full shouldn't move around so much.

 

[subaquaticus]

On friday I got my new neck weight that I had made just for our national competition we had this weekend. It was great. Again I used 2,7Kg that makes me neutral boyant at 2m. The deepth of the pool was 2,2m but i swimm at about 1,5m so i was slightly positive at the start and then neutral at the end. I would say that a bit positive at the start is OK as long U don't have to swimm downwards and u remain in the totaly horizontal position so u can glide long.

and you are in a swimming suit, with no wetsuit, i assume ?

My new neckweight did the job and I did my ne PB on our most important competition 82m .

clap ! clap ! BIG CONGRATULATIONS !

I just have to make it a little tighter because it bumped me a few times on my chin. I belive a little smaller so a bit more full shouldn't move around so much.

why don't you try 6 ankle weights tied together ? it is very comfortable and you can adjust it to fit your neck...

if 2.7 kg makes you buoyant at 2 m, then 3 kg will make you buoyant at 1.7 m, won't it ?

 

[SanSan]

and you are in a swimming suit, with no wetsuit, i assume ?

U'r right... no wetsuit. Only swimming suit. And I was packing a bit.

clap ! clap ! BIG CONGRATULATIONS !

Thanky you, thank you. I'm still having a hard time beliving it.

why don't you try 6 ankle weights tied together ? it is very comfortable and you can adjust it to fit your neck...

I allready tried ancle weights but a single cutom made neck weight is better. Belive me. U can't fit the ankle weights just right. At least I couldn't. They where allways to long and making a lot of watter resistnace. I'll just fix my neck weight until it fits pefectly. I'll make a pic of it when i get my camera back.

if 2.7 kg makes you buoyant at 2 m, then 3 kg will make you buoyant at 1.7 m, won't it ?

Yes, thats about it... I tried a friends 3.2kg in a thin neoprene coating and I was nevtral at about 1-1,5m. Neoprene coating if good because is realy smooth it doesn't moove alot around. But I for me 3.2kg was a bit too much I figoured.

U just have to test it and go for ur feeling. Just remeber to test it allways at the same deepth, same amount of air in lungs and the same suit if any.

 

[ggarrett]

Re: Coating lead neck weights

Neoprene coating if good because is realy smooth it doesn't moove alot around.

When I first tried a neck weight, I went to the sporting goods store and bought a bunch of lead "egg sinkers" which are used for fishing. I strung them together and off I went. As I started using more and more weight and started stringing more and more weights together, I noticed how black my fingers got from handling the lead.

Then it dawned on me that I might have lead rubbing off on my neck close to my brain. I did not want that, so I ended up coating the lead weights with a plastic, rubber stuff. I recommend avoiding using uncoated or uncovered lead weights, especially where it comes in contact with skin, and especially around the neck. Lots of divers load up section of bicycle tires with release clips for neck weights. That protects them from the lead too.

Peace,
Glen

 

[subaquaticus]

2 kg around my neck, it is definitely not enough ! if I am trying lying on the bottom of the pool with full lungs, my rib cage first, then my whole body goes up...

I am going to buy a third pair of ankle weights (1 more kg !) and trying 2.5 kg next time...

 

[glennv]

I use 2+Kg on my neck and 1,2 on my hip. I am 1.96 meters tall and have a very low body fat percentage so i have to use a 3 mm trousers just to give my legs a bit of buoancy, so then the hip lead i use for trimming the position to slightly positive legs. I like this instead of perfect neutral. Gives me a more floating sensation.
Used this config on my last PB (and Nat. Rec) 114 meters.

In training i can do 4-4,5 strokes per 25m, but in competition due to the extra exitement i end up with 5,5-6 strokes.

 

[subaquaticus]

I use 2+Kg on my neck and 1,2 on my hip. I am 1.96 meters tall and have a very low body fat percentage so i have to use a 3 mm trousers just to give my legs a bit of buoancy, so then the hip lead i use for trimming the position to slightly positive legs. I like this instead of perfect neutral. Gives me a more floating sensation.
Used this config on my last PB (and Nat. Rec) 114 meters.

In training i can do 4-4,5 strokes per 25m, but in competition due to the extra exitement i end up with 5,5-6 strokes.

One question : if your legs are sinking why do you put your extra 1.2 kg at the hips and not at your neck ? wouldn't it avoid you to put on a 3 mm wetsuit ?

You would have then 3.2 kg around your neck ...

another question : at what depth are you neutral with such a config ?

 

[immerlustig]

quote:

...i have to use a 3 mm trousers just to give my legs a bit of buoancy, so then the hip lead i use for trimming the position...


that explains it to me


r.