how to breath

[Geo]

funny to think I have lived until now, but lately how to breath has become a issue as it seems to be rather complicated in doing it "right"

what I have gathered so far is that one should breath deep, into the stomach and no just into the chest. that was all fine until I started with Pilate's where the aim is to strength the bodies core muscles and tightening the pelvic floor muscles and that is where there seems to be an contradiction to me.

with my stomach and pelvic floor muscles relax it feels to me that I can breath allot deeper, but then my stomach/belly does pop out (which one does not want from a Pilate's point of view) but keeping the pelvic floor and stomach muscles in tack it feels to me that the amount of air taken in is allot less as the diaphragm can't drop down as far.

hope a explained it clearly and would welcome input.

 

[oferdegi]

Hi Geo!
I'm not much familiar with Pilates'* concept of breathing, but I can share from my experience in Tai Chi / Quigong. There the idea is first to relax the unnecessarily tense muscles, including abdominals, and lower the feeling of breathing to below the navel. That's the stage when everybody's belly starts sticking out and moving as they breath. Later on, and very gradually, you learn that it's not just about being loose & flabby - some strength gradually builds up in there (we call it Chi, or internal energy), and your breathing remains focused down below the navel, but your belly doesn't go in-out anymore. I think it transforms into a feeling of up-down, where you can feel the pelvic floor participating in the breathing cycle.

So, I think it is not a contradiction, but only different discplines that divide it into stages differently and teach in a different way, then eventually it all converges. Of course, in the old days one would only follow one master, & nowadays we keep hearing different things from all directions, and we have to choose for ourselves what suits us, or work at synthesizing it all and making it our own - choice does bring much more of a responsibility.
Hope this helps any,
Good luck with your training!
Ofer
*I do envy you - been dreaming forever of getting some Pilates training and never managed to find the time & money to do it.

 

[lungfish]

Hi Geo,
Just to offer some more considerations on breathing....
Muscles for breathing are primarily the diaphragm and intercostals, and to a much lesser extent the subclavials. If you restrict the diaphragm or intercostals (ribcage), you can not take on as much air. The idea of lower abdominal breathing as the martial artists and yogic practitioners aproach it involves using all the muscles but begining and ending with the lower abs - this is because they allow the diaphragm the fullest range of motion and the greatest inhale/exhale capacity.
So your observations are correct....
As a freediver, I wouldn't tense any muscle group that wasn't absolutely necessary because it costs 02 and interferes with the easy range of motion needed for relaxed swimming....relaxation is critical, esp. during breathup.
Lungfish

 

[Geo]

Thanks for the info guys.

lungfish, so does that mean your belly pops out as you inhale, since your stomach muscles are relaxed?

 

[Mr. X]

...what I have gathered so far is that one should breath deep, into the stomach and no just into the chest. that was all fine until I started with Pilate's where the aim is to strength the bodies core muscles and tightening the pelvic floor muscles and that is where there seems to be an contradiction to me.

with my stomach and pelvic floor muscles relax it feels to me that I can breath allot deeper, but then my stomach/belly does pop out (which one does not want from a Pilate's point of view) but keeping the pelvic floor and stomach muscles in tack it feels to me that the amount of air taken in is allot less as the diaphragm can't drop down as far.

People used to think that muscle tone/strength were polar opposites of flexibility & suppleness. In practice they often are. However, you do not have to look too far to find examples of both co-existing, for example:
- ballet dancers (associated with pilates) are both supple & toned.
- big body builder (men and women) who are able to perform various feats of suppleness, such as full splits.
- rock climbers (some are more supple than others!)
- acrobats
That suggest to me that to achieve both you need to work on both -- one does not lead to the other.

 

[Geo]

Hi Mr X, I agree 100% with what you said, but I think that a distinguish needs to be made between a relaxed muscle and a supple/flexible muscle i.e. when doing a full split does not mean that the legs muscles are relaxed, but they are supple enough to be stretch to that point.

And that I reckon is what I am trying to work out. Say my stomach and ribs muscle are super supple/and flexible I am from the opinion that I will need to engage my stomach and pelvic floor muscles when taking a deep breath if I don't want my belly to pop out. But if I don't engage them my belly will pop out as there is no resistance as the muscles are relaxed and supple.

So that is what I am trying to establish to you totally relax those muscles or do you engage them?

 

[Mr. X]

You are right. I associate suppleness with muscle relaxation -- which is wrong. It seems like [ame="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:Muscle+tone"]muscle tone[/ame] is tension in the muscle caused by stimulation - which seems like the opposite of relaxation. :hmm I guess the ability to relax a toned muscle at will would be the ideal.

 

[DeepThought]

My belly will usually pop out, if that answers your question.

 

[lungfish]

Yep,
Like I said, a relaxed stomach when breathing up... yes, it will pop out....Nothing wrong with training your abs and toning, etc. and if the Pilates method is to be tense when doing Pilates, well by all means go for it. The key to effective deep diving though is a low heartrate and effecient use of resources. Tensing ones abs before diving is probably not very efficient. You will be using them when you kick anyway.
Lungfish

 

[Geo]

Thanks all for the advice