Hunting and feeling of lack of air

[keyratfelix]

Greetings to all,
I need advise on the following. I recently started hunting in the 50-60 foot range, I have a static of 3min and a half. My question is, why is it that I feel no fullness of air as I approach the 40ft mark?? If I am at 30 feet or so I am fine, but As soon as I get into the 40's I feel a lack of air. Is this normal and I just have to get used to it??? Should I trust it and continue my dive???
Thanxs in advance for your replies!

 

[azapa]

welcome,

you are another lucky person with world class freedivers, spearos, and DiveFIT/Performance Freediver training on your doorstep. Please do a course, it'll be the best diving investment ever.

Your questions seem simple but are complex to answer. I think your "lack if air" feeling you are trying to say you can't equalize anymore? You are most probably using the wrong technique, one of which, Vasalva, classically fails at that depth.

60ft is very deep if your not sure what you are doing.

be safe

 

[spaghetti]

I must suscribe what brother Azapa said above: if your ambition is to dive 60+ feet, well you have to take a course, especially if you live in Miami were some of the world's best freediving teachers are available in loco.
This said, the sensation you report is quite normal: depth must be dealt with also psychologically. I don't mean that what you feel is "fear": it's just a thing you must get used to. I too remember a sense of suffocation when I started to dive deeper: I wasn't really out of air. It was my mind that just couldn't handle the situation, and the sense of "no air left" was most of the times a signal from my mind, an excuse to tell me "swim up, now stupid: it's dark and cold down here".
Some common sense advice:
1) take a course.
2) improve your depth gradually (GRADUALLY!!!) step by step.
3) If you don't feel comfortable, do not insist: listen to your inner voice when it says "let's go back up to surface" (ain't no bullshit: we DO really have an inner voice telling us what's right when diving deep under water)

 

[keyratfelix]

Thank you for the advise spaghetti, I am currently saving up to take the FIT course with stepnik, taking a little longer due to the economical situation.

 

[spaghetti]

Thank you for the advise spaghetti, I am currently saving up to take the FIT course with stepnik, taking a little longer due to the economical situation.

Consider that one thing is to dive 60+ feet, but hunting that deep is all another story. Meters are not peanuts: we must improve step by step.
For how long have you been spearfishing? And do you really need to go that deep to find some decent fish over there in Fla?

 

[Bill]

At 40-50 feet you probably reach a point where your lungs are on a normal exhale and that triggers a feeling of emptiness. It is also the depth where you cannot get to the surface faster than blood can go from lungs to brain. This is where/when diving becomes dangerous. With a little training you can suppress the urge to breathe, forever. Before you get comfortable beyond this, you need a good buddy. We came very close to losing another diver in Kona a few weeks ago.

 

[keyratfelix]

spaghetti, Ive been spearfishing all my life, mainly from shore. Ive been out on boat spearfishing maybe a dozen times. I grew up on an island in south florida when at the time it was full of old timers, not very many kids or teens my age so I had to settle with freediving from the beach of which I have no problem with as Ive hunted fish off those beaches some people might never get to hunt in 10 -14 feet of water. I am now 31 years of age.
By no means do you have to dive 60 feet to find productive fishing grounds down here, i just want to be comfortable at 40-45 feet, not to say you cant do some hardcore hunting in shallower water here.

Its just a wanting to challenge myself a little more, something ive always wanted to do is reach 60 feet. might seem foolish to some but thats ok.
why 60?, I dont know, maybe I will find out when i get there...

 

[blueface]

I'm not an expert but I can dive. Just from reading your post it sounds like alot of CO2 causing discomfort. If you are working very hard to get down you will buid up CO2. Like these guys say, take a course. I wish I was in an area where it was offered then I'd take one. I learned to dive through friends and literature.

 

[Erik]

agree with Bill: a large part of this, especially if you have this feeling at the begining of the dive as you approach 50' or so, is simply that your lungs are compressed to a point that feels as if they are empty. I remember something similar when I started and it would hit at 35'.... very powerful!
Take your time and they'll stretch a bit and you'll feel better.
Cheers,
Erik

 

[spaghetti]

agree with Bill: is simply that your lungs are compressed to a point that feels as if they are empty.

In facts that will do no harm per se. And my idea is it's the way you deal with the feeling that matters (I'm hitting the nail, I know :duh but anyway...).
Take your time till it feels better is a correct advice from Erik. But if at first you can't relax, if you risk to panic, don't try to fight with it while you're on the bottom. Dive after dive it will get better and you'll make a friend of it, my two cents.

 

[efattah]

When diving with normal CO2 levels, the urge to breathe increases with increasing depth as the lungs collapse and the CO2 has nowhere to go except back into the blood. As you ascend the urge to breathe will often diminish, only to get worse if you go a bit deeper.

 

[keyratfelix]

Here is my breath-up, let me know what you think.

1 (First I will just float around, relax, meditate.
2 (2 min of diaphramic breathing (inhale slowly through nose, exhale mouth,the exhale is about 2 times longer than inhale) Hold breath at surface for 1 min.
3) Same diaphramic breathing 2 minutes, relax.
4) Hold breath static on surface 2 mins, relax.
5) 3 mins diaphramic breathing with 4 quick complete exhales and inhales jackknife go down first dive.

After the first dive I dont go through this routine again when spearfishing, I will just float and breath normally for about 3-4 min while meditating on lowering heart rate and resaturating my body with oxygen, take 3-4 forceful inhales and exhales jacknife down.

Thats preety much it cant wait to hear what you have to say about my routine, this could be where my trouble lyes...

 

[azapa]

whilst I agree on the initial warm up routine, as you will speed up the point that your max. dive response (search here) happens, I am not sure that it is practical if you are spearing. Try this:
-arrive at spearing spot (you probably have done some work to get there)
-arrange everythimg, float, buddy
-talk through your dive sequence with your buddy, even do a rescue drill (I do this with my buddies even though they think i'm crazy) (do you know how to recover a blacked out freediver? do you know what a samba looks like, what happens if the guy turns blue in the face and is not breathing (laryngospasm)
-face down in the water, with snorkel in, mask off, and breath naturally for 5 mins
- practice equalizing in this time, clear your tubes, spit (sorry), snif a little salt water to loosen all up
- replace mask
- take 2 good breaths, feel and listen for your heart to calm down, take one more full breath and go

All sounds complex, but is natural and easier than your sistem

After than just make sure all dives are AT LEAST seperated by a surface time equal to the dive time by 2. More on longer dives. You will start to feel when that is toos short, go to 3 0r 4x then.

oh dear, in simplifying I appear to have complicated!

take a course, they teach you all this stuff, first hand, and well!

 

[keyratfelix]

hey azapa, thanks for your opinion! I am going to try it, and by the way I dont think your crazy because you practice your rescue protocol.
If more people did this then I think we would see many less deaths in freediving, so good for you...
Like I said above some where I am going to be taking a course some time in january or feburary. I wish I could do it sooner but the way the economy is going right now im surprised I can pay my electric bill. Just lost 32% of my IRA...
But the hopes of reaching my goals in freediving makes things better, gives me something to look forward to....
thanks again!

 

[Erik]

^what he said!^
Your pattern would be fine for the first dive, but after that it's redundant. Just dive and breathe up 3 or 4 minutes between each dive.

You're probably loading yourself up with CO2 with that pattern BTW, which would add to your misery at 50'. CO2 is a good thing to a point as it's needed to tell you to start breathing, but you don't want so much that you can't dive either.
Try something similar to Eric F's older pattern- great for spearos: breathe your 3 or 4 minutes, then hold for 10 seconds, exhale, take a couple of good breaths, then dive. This will add some CO2 that should warn you a little earlier than normal, which is good. I've used it (and a bit of restraint) for years with no blackouts/sambas as a solo spearo.

 

[keyratfelix]

thanks eric imgonna try that, makes sense to me.. by the way are you the founder of the liquid goggles??

 

[Erik]

That's EriC Fattah, lives in Canada too.