I will die or continue ?!

[Mohammad Rast]

Hi All,

I'm training s_apnea this way : just holding my breath with one deep breath! (only in water not dry). Contractions begin about 1min (strong) then after a hard section, in 1:30 it ends.
At that point :
- There is a huge pressure on my body but I can hold myself more (since there is no contraction).
- My heart suddenly beats very slow (or just nothing, I don't know!), i.e. I sense the beats before that point, but after that I sense nothing!

I want to ask : Will I die after some seconds after that point ?!

=> If you have any idea about this situation please tell me.
- Thanks in advance

 

[picasso]

Hi, you want die unless you are consciuous. Do not worry your heard beats even though you don't feel it. Do it with your body and he/she must control you are still conscious. I suppose you and your body knows something about blackout and safety...?

 

[Mohammad Rast]

Thanks picasso,
Yes I know about 'blackout', then when I'm conscious there is no danger ?

 

[alejo326]

If at this point you start feeling very good (euphoria) thats a sign that black out is near. Also if you get blurry vision. Are you doing this with a partner?

 

[glubglub]

OK just a word of caution. If you do this underwater, especially in the ocean by yourself, do not ever ever push your limit. Especially the pressure will push more oxygen in your lung to your body you feel you have plenty air. Yes you can die easily this way.

Doing solo is never recommended anywhere, but I understand it's hard to get a partner willing to be responsible for your well being when you are taking risky endeavors like this.

Full disclosure: I went solo quite a few times in the ocean, and once I made that stupid mistake of pushing close to my limit in 20-22ft (6-7m). I spent 1 min static on the bottom (so maybe plus 20 seconds-ish going down and up). while waiting on the bottom maybe 45 seconds-ish, had a small contractions but pushed through until my stopwatch kicked 1 min, on the way up I didn't see any lights as described by picasso, but I got very sluggish. That 20 ft trip up seemed like forever. I made it to the surface fine, but my whole body started feeling very acidic (like after you sprint for miles). Not going to make that mistake again.

So, no, even when you are conscious, it doesn't guarantee you will make it alive in that situation. Also: blackout if I heard correctly is like light switch on / off, not getting darker progressively (that's called brownout?).

Picasso: I think you meant "Buddy" not "body"?

Dive safely!

 

[Mohammad Rast]

Can I improve ?

Thanks 'alejo326',
I will take care of 'blackout' and its signs.

Many thanks 'glubglub' (you have a nice name here! ) , Your past situation is helpful for me and others (It's good for us to know that : some seconds more, doesn't worth for the rest of life! :duh )

+ I will go with my 'body' and 'buddy' both, and others!

=> But here is another question :
I'm training for months with various techniques, but there is not a 'good' improvement. I was able to do about 1:20 and now just about 1:45 up to 2min after some(about 5) months. Is there a problem ? I can do about 3min with hyperventilation but with just holding my breath, I can do 1:45. There is a small improvement in my hyperventilation (from 2:30 to 3min), but almost nothing with my 'just holding'! I also do some DNF (about three(two) days in a week), and also here is a fix 40m for me! I do statics When I'm in home by immersing my head in a bowl of water! (but that really helps for virtualization!!).

Say me your words to improve my holds!
Thanks.

 

[Jonta]

I improved 40-50 sec to 4:17 now in about 2 months mabye a littel more. The best advice i can give you is to learn to relax. Yestur day i felt very tence and had a hard time realaxing and i only got about 3min when i the day before did my pb of 4:17.
Also lerning to relax while having contractions i think is very important. I dont do any tabels i just hold my breat 5times and increase the time whit easch hold i this about 2 times a week. Every week i try to set up a goal like improving whit 5 sec or something like that. I also do walking some walking apnea just like the static whit 5 holds. It helped me to get from 30 sec to 2:32 now if i rember right. Im sure you will do atleast 3-4min in 5 months.
Im very new to this so im sure someone else have better advice but this is just what i do.

 

[Mohammad Rast]

'contractions' or 'training' or 'techniques' ?

Thanks Jonta,
I think my problem is 'contractions', because one time I can hold 2:15 very easy but another time 1:35 hard! However, my contractions coming at the same of 2 months later, then I can't hold it anymore! :head

I do relaxation but has a little effect.

I do my training in a little cold water in the home, and in a warm water in the pool(very bad! swimmers there like it but me not!). In the cold water, I can hold about one minute more, but when it's warm, contractions coming very sooner and I'm very tired in the warm one. :crutch

Does changing warm and cold water for training have an effect on holding ?

Is there any advice for 'contractions' or 'training' or 'techniques' ?

Thanks.

 

[salibandy]

Well you are right about the temperature of the water. Cold water on your face triggers the dive reflex, which help slow your heartbeat down etc etc.

If you're having problems with contractions, maybe you need to do more CO2 tables, that is, you hold your breath for the same amount of time, but your recovery times decrease. Do this seven or eight times during the table.

 

[Mohammad Rast]

First hold(1:35) -> Second one(2:00) -> .... ?!!

You're right salibandy,
When I do the first holding(just holding) contractions coming around 1min, and I can hold up to 1:35, but just 3 deep breaths after that, and then holding again, they come at 1:30 and I can hold up to 2min.

=> Can I do something (except hyperventilating) to hold more for the 'first' one ? (i.e. can I do sth for contractions to come later?)

 

[salibandy]

Like I said, do tables to decrease your CO2 intolerance. You can find them with the search function.

Some people say the first hold is the best. Even though the contractions come earlier, they are more manageable. Thus you can hold your breath longer.

 

[shaun.reid]

how long can one generally hold their breath after contractions? I was spearfishing 21m a while ago - i must say I was pushing the limits because i had a friend next to me and we were filming - i did not feel any contractions but when i hit the surface i blacked out - any suggestions - i did not hyperventalate

 

[salibandy]

Well it really depends. With training, quite a fair bit.

Check out the entry on Wikipedia about deep water blackout. That might be what happened to you.

 

[Jonta]

Contractions dont really matter for me atleast. Sometimes i get them around 1:20 other times i get them armound 2:30 and still my times are about the same.
I sugesst you try to start youre stopwatch once you get contractions and ex hold them for 10sek then 20 then 30 and so on. When i started i did 30 sek max whit this traning i just tryed it and i got up too 2:21 of contractions(30, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00, 2:21).

If i rember right i think that not all people get contractions and that they are very indvidual so this is just what works for me.

 

[Mohammad Rast]

CO2 Works!

Thanks guys and salibandy ,
I tried the CO2 method this morning (as salibandy said), and really works! :duh I did three holdings, first with one deep breath, after that just five deep breaths then hold for second one, and just like that for third one, results :
1:45, 2:10, 2:23
It's good for now, I will train a while, then tell you the results .

 

[salibandy]

Rast, I think you've misunderstood what I've said. What I mean was, your CO2 tolerance is not high. You're supposed to train that. What you are doing is not what I'm saying. Search CO2 tables with the search function and you'll see what I mean.

If not, you can do as Jonta says. From your firsrt contraction, you count 30 secs. The next holds, you do 1 minute from your contractions. the next, 1.30. This way you train your tolerence to Co2 levels and contractions.

Good luck!

 

[Mohammad Rast]

Some links for 'CO2 table' ?

Really my last name is 'Rastkar'(not Rast!), but the limit for the length of username here, did it!
I searched for 'CO2 table' here, I found mostly the questions 'about that', but not 'what's that itself' and how can I do that.
I'll google for that, but if you have a good 'link' on the net, please tell me.
Thanks.

 

[salibandy]

Training Tables

CO² Tables
CO² is the common trigger for the urge to breathe. CO² Tables are meant to increase your tolerance to high CO² Levels, you do this by decreasing resting periods before a breath hold. The breath holds in a CO² table are usually 50% of your personal record.

An example of a CO² Table:
1. ventilate 2:30 static 1:30
2. ventilate 2:15 static 1:30
3. ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4. ventilate 1:45 static 1:30
5. ventilate 1:30 static 1:30
6. ventilate 1:15 static 1:30
7. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
8. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
total duration 25:15

O² Tables
O² Tables are meant to increase your tolerance to low O² Levels, you do this by increasing breath holds while keeping the resting periods the same. The last breath hold in an O² table is usually up to 80% of your personal record.

An example of an O² Table:
1.ventilate 2:00 static 1:00
2.ventilate 2:00 static 1:15
3.ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4.ventilate 2:00 static 1:45
5.ventilate 2:00 static 2:00
6.ventilate 2:00 static 2:15
7.ventilate 2:00 static 2:30
8.ventilate 2:00 static 2:30
total duration 30:45

The CO² and O² tables can be modified to suit the divers will and feeling. I personally do these tables twice a week.

Rastkar, here are the tables. This was written by a forum member named Akoni.

 

[Mohammad Rast]

Many Thanks!