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Improvements for Pathos Sniper Roller 95

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Kodama

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2016
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I have been using the Pathos Sniper Roller 95 for more than a year now and it's time to reassess it's performance. Overall I am happy with the gun and what I like most is it's performance (range and accuracy) in a relative small package. The minimal overhang of the spear keeps things compact and the fact that the flopper hangs on the muzzle is really nice too.
Loading is easy without the need for a load assist and it is also fairly light because you load in several stages. There are four fins on the shaft, one in the middle to rest and three at the back. If you want to load both bands as far back as possible you need to pull hard since the last fin is way back against your chest. I found this hard at first until the bands where broken in and became easier to load.

However the gun is not perfect out of the box. I never really liked the pull on the trigger and it is not light enough to be predictable, it has become worse over time. No worries since a new 'perfect trigger' will be available from Ermessub within a month or two, we should be able to just drop it in.
Then there is the roller head. The roller groove is eccentric which helps to avoid slippage (I think) but they do not roll on bearings. Rollers on a bearing run so much smoother and I am sure there is power lost here due to friction! I wish I could change the rollers but have not found a solution to do so without rebuilding the complete muzzle.
If you have any suggestions to upgrade the rollers and put them on bearings I would love to hear them!

The other day while doing maintenance I have noticed that the edge of the roller was slightly scratched/nicked and this causes significant friction against the muzzle. I imagine this happened while bumping into the reef.
Again this is easily remedied by cutting the burr off but it needs to be addressed because it certainly slows down the contraction speed of the bands, hence affecting performance.

Compared to the RA Tuna roller 110 of a friend of mine the band stretch is only 2cm shorter on the 95! FYI

I have also some places where the paint is coming of the barrel, more an aesthetic issue than anything else and I don't care about it at all but I wish they would have put on something better like the coating on the laser spearguns.

I would love to take this gun in the pool and run some tests but unfortunately I don't have acces to a pool that I can enter with a speargun.
Overall I think this is a good platform but could use some tinkering to make it perform to it's best potential.
 
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Here are some pictures of the roller and the hollow axle they ride on. Any ideas on improving this are welcome.
IMG_7641.jpg

The pin you see in the middle is the line guide which seems bent to one side to keep it in place.

IMG_7642.jpg
 
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Quick note on the bearings. Look into needle roller bearings. They will likely be the slimmest you can get. Maybe there's a size that fits the axle and then you'd need to enlarge the bore on the roller pulleys, of course.


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Thanks Gecko that is a very useful tip. I have found a company that makes ceramic needles for needle bearings. I have to contact them next week and see if I can come up with caged ceramic needle bearing solution of the appropriate size.
Probably just make new delrin rollers with a larger inner diameter to allow the needle bearing to fit instead of trying to change the original ones.

Now that I have started tinkering I am excited to see what other improvements I can make to enhance performance.
A different band configuration might be worth considering but I would have to educate myself better regarding roller dynamics to understand what changes would make the most sense.
 
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I am working together with a German specialized company who produces bearings and I need to know some technical details to find the best solution for this application.
I hope the mechanical specialists around here could help.
Things I need to know: (approximations are fine)

drive speed of the pulley U/min
Load in kN (radial)

We are talking about the loads that the bearing must be able to withstand. The reason we need to know is that I would like to use ceramic needles which are the best for a salt water environment and to make a bearing as thin as possible. But ceramic needles are rather fragile. We will probably end up using two or three rows of needles between 3 and 4mm. I hope 3mm since I don't want to raise the axis/direction of the contracting band.
In order to find the best saltwater solution I need to come up with some numbers to see wether this is even possible.
Any help would be appreciated!
 
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The force won't be that much, I can't recall exactly where but I've seen posts on band power before. Maybe on spearboard. I might have posted some tests myself of the pull of 14mm small ID but can't recall the results and I am traveling now. Perhaps we are talking max 30kg or so? As for speed, that's harder. But perhaps you can make an approximation based on how fast a shaft shoots. There should be some tests out there with average speeds over a 4m shot or so.


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Here are some pictures of the new Ermes Sub double roller trigger for Pathos. I am very excited about this upgrade.
cea56e9d2903a11bd1187b40dc73040b.jpg


After installation.


3bb715de769fe58b0f3608142453cd1c.jpg


With side line release

4d4cfcd34b33491ebbfacdb4ab08f9e9.jpg


Showing the cradle for the front roller.
a4e57cf7c4d64d5f635f0d8aabe36887.jpg




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I cut off the rear tabs of the rubber-hooks. I have no idea why they are there in the first place and they have been annoying to me. Now it is much easier to just ‘trow’ the bands over the hooks.
c081c261929f3bf7656d57cdcfd72c98.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Here are some pictures of the new Ermes Sub double roller trigger for Pathos. I am very excited about this upgrade.
cea56e9d2903a11bd1187b40dc73040b.jpg


After installation.


3bb715de769fe58b0f3608142453cd1c.jpg


With side line release

4d4cfcd34b33491ebbfacdb4ab08f9e9.jpg


Showing the cradle for the front roller.
a4e57cf7c4d64d5f635f0d8aabe36887.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you please post the link for which drop-in trigger kit you used?
 
I am working together with a German specialized company who produces bearings and I need to know some technical details to find the best solution for this application.
I hope the mechanical specialists around here could help.
Things I need to know: (approximations are fine)

drive speed of the pulley U/min
Load in kN (radial)

We are talking about the loads that the bearing must be able to withstand. The reason we need to know is that I would like to use ceramic needles which are the best for a salt water environment and to make a bearing as thin as possible. But ceramic needles are rather fragile. We will probably end up using two or three rows of needles between 3 and 4mm. I hope 3mm since I don't want to raise the axis/direction of the contracting band.
In order to find the best saltwater solution I need to come up with some numbers to see wether this is even possible.
Any help would be appreciated!


Also, did you happen to find some updated bearings?
 
Also, did you happen to find some updated bearings?

I have not worked on improving the bearings. I do know where I can find ceramic needle bearings but this would require producing new rollers too with larger internal diameter.
I am not convinced whether the effort is worth it. I find it difficult to judge how big of a difference it will make in the end.
Still on the fence about this one.

I am putting cones on my shafts and will modify the handle first.


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I have not worked on improving the bearings. I do know where I can find ceramic needle bearings but this would require producing new rollers too with larger internal diameter.
I am not convinced whether the effort is worth it. I find it difficult to judge how big of a difference it will make in the end.
Still on the fence about this one.

I am putting cones on my shafts and will modify the handle first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey K,
I am getting curious and since I have a hobby lathe at home now, I might be able to give this a go. It shouldn't be too hard to cut the rollers in Delrin/POM and I may be able to source the bearings cheaper in China than you can locally. If you feel like it, shoot me a PM and perhaps we can figure something out - I wouldn't dream of charging you for the machining as I am just a happy amateur who would like the project;)
 
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Hey K,
I am getting curious and since I have a hobby lathe at home now, I might be able to give this a go. It shouldn't be too hard to cut the rollers in Delrin/POM and I may be able to source the bearings cheaper in China than you can locally. If you feel like it, shoot me a PM and perhaps we can figure something out - I wouldn't dream of charging you for the machining as I am just a happy amateur who would like the project;)

Pm sent


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Pm sent


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Hey guys nice thread. I also have a Pathos 115 roller sniper and would like to know what you guys come up with on the rollers. I did the trigger upgrade and cut off the tabs on the anchor on the bottom also.
 
For the time being I have abandoned the roller upgrade project. I first wanted to see how the new trigger performed before adding potential issues.
At this time I am not sure how much an improvement rollers with a bearing would be. I would love to see someone else tinker with it. Ceramic needle rollers is the way to go I think. You will have to turn a new wheel on a lathe to accommodate them.


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For the time being I have abandoned the roller upgrade project. I first wanted to see how the new trigger performed before adding potential issues.
At this time I am not sure how much an improvement rollers with a bearing would be. I would love to see someone else tinker with it. Ceramic needle rollers is the way to go I think. You will have to turn a new wheel on a lathe to accommodate them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok thanks for the feed back. We’re you located in California? Also how do you like your trigger so far? Mine is hard to pull but mine is not an Ermes Sub I had mine changed out when I bought the gun at SpearAmerica in Irvine,Ca. It looks the same except the line release on the side is different. Maybe mine is not a double roller I’ll have to take a closer look.
 
Ok thanks for the feed back. We’re you located in California? Also how do you like your trigger so far? Mine is hard to pull but mine is not an Ermes Sub I had mine changed out when I bought the gun at SpearAmerica in Irvine,Ca. It looks the same except the line release on the side is different. Maybe mine is not a double roller I’ll have to take a closer look.

At the moment I am not in California. I have been using this gun constantly over the last week here on the Azores and it has performed well. No issues at all. I doubt yours is the same. Probably just an upgraded trigger sear. The ermes sub is a totally different trigger.


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Ok thanks I’ll check into it when I get back to the states. My trigger is a little hard to pull but not that bad but I would like it a little easier to pull. I am currently in the Philippines and won’t be back till July. Thanks again for the info.
 
Another upgrade to the gun. Lost the loading pad on my last trip so made an improved version out of rubber. Here is the result. Better site picture, the top of the pad is flush with the plastic of the handle nothing is sticking out like with the original one. More area means more comfortable loading and it adds 10 mm of length making it easier to load on the last shark fin.
1233db8eb9bf36502774a8228d027016.jpg

3d65b4ee684f2b0c739d9b0b9cf267b4.jpg


Coming up: handle mod and roller head mod. Stay tuned.


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