Increasing Depth on FRC

[Bandos]

Hi
I am diving on FRC since 1 year now (relaxed exhale, not forced), for about 3-4 times a week. Progress is very slow, I have increased about 1 metre a month...my maximum was 20m, I am comfortable at 15-17m for about 2 min. I heard that some of you dive to 30m+ on FRC... Is there anything else I can do apart from diaphragma stretching and of course diving? Is it normal that an increase in depth comes so slow in FRC?

 

[Mullins]

My, what unusual spam

 

[sayNO2o2]

lol! no this is normal, want to go deeper longer? new frc nasal spray!

 

[BennyB]

Oh so THAT'S what all those billboards about the nasal spray mean

 

[Lobo Marino]

Hi
I am diving on FRC since 1 year now (relaxed exhale, not forced), for about 3-4 times a week. Progress is very slow, I have increased about 1 metre a month...my maximum was 20m, I am comfortable at 15-17m for about 2 min. I heard that some of you dive to 30m+ on FRC..

First with FRC dives,do not compare yoursef to others ,because nobody exhales the same amount as others,some people going deeper than you on FRC may go shallower than you with full lungs.

What is more important is for you to exhale the same amount everytime (a good way is to do "honest" FRCs ,meaning performing an "honest" passive exhale)
this way you can mesure your progression.

Then what is stopping you to go deeper ?
is it feeling too much pressure on your lungs/trachea ? or is it equalisation ?
For equalisation, FRCs are a very good way to train your mouth-fill/frenzel equalisation and/or reverse packing.
if it s the pressure on your lungs that stops you ,maybe are you descending too fast ? try to descent in free immersion rather than finning,and avoid wearing a weightbelt ,at least remove 3kg from your belt.(in order to avoid dangerous uncontrolled freefall)
The best way to progress in FRC is to descend very slowly ,relax ,maybe close your eyes,enjoy the moment,and feel the benefits of the blood shift.

 

[cdavis]

Off color jokes aside, yes, it is normal to proceed slowly. That's a good thing. It takes quite a while to adjust to frc. The guys who are diving frc 30 m and deeper are using mouthfill equalization. I haven't mastered that technique and about 26 meters is the deepest I can do comfortably. What you are doing is what has worked best for me.

Since you started diving frc, has your dive time gone up, and by how much?

Connor

 

[fflupo]

hi bandos

it took me more than two years of every day training to go below 30m on exhale

what helped me was to use less and less air and freefall while i could focus on the art of relaxation

do it little steps

wolf

 

[Bandos]

Hi guys,

thanks for your replies.
First of all, what stops me from going deeper is the pressure on my lungs. I am doing a mouthfill at 12-13mtrs so there is plenty of air to equalize, it's just the compression of the chest that stops me from going deeper. I think my biggest problem is the descending speed. I am diving without suit and weights and on a passive exhale a smooth duckdive takes me down without any further kicking. First 8 mtrs are very nice, but deeper than 10mtrs I am going 0.7-0.8m/s which is too fast for me...
The deepest dives I did where feet first which allowed me to slow down by holding on to the line. Big problem here in the Maldives are the currents which make it hard to drop a straight line in open water.
So I guess I will just give it some more time...I am really scared of getting lung squeezed.

 

[trux]

My, what unusual spam

Did I miss some fun? Some messages deleted? Hmm, I always thought that hitting the New Posts button on DB each two minutes was sufficient! I'll have to increase the frequency.

 

[Kars]

When waving on a anchored line in the wind (current), do free immersion. You can also craw and hang on a sloping bottom. When things tighten up , go slower, and have a little stop, close your eyes and relax until that depth becomes more comfortable. Maybe you've got some time left to go a few meters deeper and do a hang there to. Just like normal deep diving it's about 'bottom time', time spent at depth, time for your mind and body to adapt and stretch.

Make sure you're hydrated, warm and comfortable the whole time during the "dive stretching".

To make quicker progression, have more dive sessions in a week, (3) you'll find it's a world of difference to go from 1 to 3 dive sessions.

When you build up gradually and go slow, there is no need to worry much about lung squeeze. How deep have you been on full lungs? Maybe your FRC 15m compares to 40m full lungs, in which case you're reaching RV, and blood shift needs to kick in. I find that this mechanism also needs time to work fill up the alveoli, and with practice your body will better doing so.

You can also do some stretching at home, even your girlfriend can help you with some of those.

Let us know how you go!

Love, courage and water,

Kars

 

[cdavis]

Bandos, if you are diving at a true frc, you can inhale a bit and still make FRC physiology work fine. Also, divers vary on how much air frc is for them. For example, for me frc in the water is less than 1 liter above a forced exhale. If I limited myself to the classic definition of frc, I'd never get deeper than 10 m, if that. I dive exhale at about 3 liters, or roughly 55-60 percent of a full inhale.

Like you, the "chest vise" is my limiting factor. Be careful when you feel that. Squeeze is pretty close when I get that feeling. At least for me, after diving frc for a couple of years, squeeze is less of a problem and recovery seems much quicker and easier.

Connor

 

[fflupo]

i know this feeling, like an elephant is standing on your chest and every movement tenses you even more up and besides this you have to hold the epiglottis closed and ...and

at this point the relaxation ( homework)needs to work and kick in,
i focus the diaphragm and keep the tongue flexible and the elephant becomes less weighted

little ,slow steps are better at this point and you even can ascent 1-2m and start there doing some smooth stretching and body-scanning

wolf

 

[cdavis]

"like an elephant is standing on your chest and every movement tenses you even more up"

Wow, is that exactly, perfectly on target!!

Fflupo, when you get that feeling and relax, exactly what is relaxing? your diaphragm, so it stretches more? your rib muscles, so they allow your ribs to collapse into a smaller space? What? How shallow did that feeling originally happen to you and did it slowly get deeper or did you find something that made a big difference all of a sudden

 

[Kars]

One of the things you can do is, when you take you mouthfull, lift you chest up and draw your diaphragm in.
Another think is having the arms aside of you, not overhead.
Understand the tensioning up is a reaction of resistance. At the first sign of this, stop. Hang at that depth, close your eyes, relax you shoulders, mouth, face, and then proceed to tell your chest it's ok, "You can relax" etc. Take your time, and you'll find when you give in to the pressure, surrender, your body relaxes and you'll be comfortable at that depth.

When I started deep diving, full lungs, I had the same pressure feeling at 10- 20-30m, and by taking my time -bottom- just above my 'failure-depth' learned my body it was all right, and it reacted by relaxation.

Diving FRC you're diving with relatively much quicker and to pressures relatively much bigger than with full lungs.

What you also can do is dive full lungs to you maximum FRC depth, have a little bottom time, and do same dive again with a little less air, gradually bringing it down to FRC.

But remember it's important to go down SLOW, in FRC relaxation is the key!

How often do you train deep diving?

Kars

 

[cdavis]

So pulling in your diaphragm does work! I had discovered that but thought I was fooling myself, could not see any logic to it. Thanks for the info.

Diving frequency is my weakest point. I'm mostly stuck in a pool, except in summer. Pool work definitely can help frc but its not the same as real diving.

Connor

 

[efattah]

When I do full exhale dives to 30m+, I *must* keep my arms by my side. There is absolutely no way I could extend my arms to pull on the line or do an arm stroke. If I try to, I can feel my lung tissue or trachea tearing apart....

It seems to me that most bad squeezes occur during free immersion or no-fins diving. The reason is pretty obvious.

Constant weight with arms by your side and a controlled turn without over-extension seems to be the least risky.

 

[demasoni]

Bandos,

Are you using a mask for your FRC dives? Have you tried a noseclip? For me it's easier to equalize with the noseclip for FRC dives as I can fully relax with my arms by my side and focus on keeping my diaphragm relaxed. With a mask, pinching the nose is distracting for depth-oriented FRC dives. Also, obviously, you don't need to equalize the mask with a noseclip.

I know when to turn because I wait for the previously described "elephant on the chest feeling" then I know I'm close. I guess I can't stress enough the fact that you need to "concentrate" on relaxing your whole body and mind so that you are extremely aware of what's going on. This attitude has taken me past 30m on FRC.

FRC for me is complete exhale then relaxing the diaphragm for an inhale to "neutral."

I've also found negative dives help before beginning FRC dives.

What may also help is filling the mouth earlier than 12-13m. I fill at around 4-5m, pretty much right away because I know my fill will last way past what I am capable of reaching on FRC right now. By filling earlier, you can focus on relaxation, equalization, and streamlining.

If you can't drop a line, what you can do is go to an area with a sandy bottom where you know the depth is within you comfort zone and just glide to the sand and lie there. This way you can practice FRC dives comfortably without fear of going too deep. As you get more comfortable, go a little deeper. I do this in Maui as we too have current and waves.

You say that after 10m you speed up too much and that .7-.8 m/s is too fast. Could you explain what about the speed is stopping you?

 

[fflupo]

lots of things in little time..

on an exhale ( less than frc) at 30m it is extreme and there is NO margin to play with because it will do damage.

like erik said: i don t move the arms either, even with the leg-strokes to come up again i can feel the muscle movement creates the tension and gives stress to the torso and everything is just on the limit.

the elephant on the torso thing: i don t pull the diaphragm up i let it happen and due relaxation it can come up ( and even equalize) and stay kind of flexible, pulling the diaphragm up means tension in the muscle and fight the pressure instead of let it go.
this is the same with my whole body every muscle tense creates stress under pressure and distracts me from the being one with the element

relaxing means for me to relax everything every possible muscle string and the mind of course, an endless mission

but the freefall is nice if you can enter the zone even nicer

wolf