Inhaling CO2...

[Oligo]

How about:
1. You breath into a plastic bag
2. When you cannot go on any longer, empy your lungs into the bag and close the bag
3. Recover by breathing room air
4. Begin your next attempt by inhaling what is in the bag (=low oxygen, high carbon dioxide) and going on breathing into the bag
5. Repeat steps 2-4

Eventually the bag is full of nearly pure CO2 and you'll get a CO2 induced coma. What a fun way to go!

:duh

 

[perow1]

It is almost impossible to inhale a lungful of pure CO2...
...you get a coughing reflex. I AM aware of the bizarre in breathing CO2. My thougt was if you could learn to control near blackout events in a better way if you are aware of the feeling. (interesting approach you got there anyway, I interpret it as you are supposed to exhale in tha bag after the static attempt as well )

 

[naiad]

How about:
1. You breath into a plastic bag
2. When you cannot go on any longer, empy your lungs into the bag and close the bag
3. Recover by breathing room air
4. Begin your next attempt by inhaling what is in the bag (=low oxygen, high carbon dioxide) and going on breathing into the bag
5. Repeat steps 2-4

Eventually the bag is full of nearly pure CO2 and you'll get a CO2 induced coma. What a fun way to go!

:duh

I think the coma would still be caused be hypoxia and not high CO2.

Only one way to find out... here goes...

NOT a good idea - and definitely not alone.

Lucia

 

[DeepThought]

Eventually the bag is full of nearly pure CO2 and you'll get a CO2 induced coma. What a fun way to go!

I think that eventually the bag will still be 80%~ full of nitrogen.

 

[AltSaint]

Another thing you can do is brew a barrel of beer, uncover it, and take a breath from the surface. I've tried it - it has an acidic taste, is almost impossible to retain in the lungs, and causes dizziness.

I didn't do this in the interests of apnea research, I just used to brew beer before I started freediving.

 

[perow1]

Yes it is almost impossible to keep high CO2 containing air in your lungs. In the case of dry ice you just need to breathe further from the ice to mix it with air. The contractions are instant and you get focus problems if you are trying to concentrate. You also tend to get happy and giggly when you exhale and breathe ordinary air.

 

[Oligo]

I think that eventually the bag will still be 80%~ full of nitrogen.

Nope, since you keep adding CO2 (and only CO2) from your body. Eventually CO2 will displace even nitrogen from the bag, granted that you will have to keep doing this for a VERY long time.

I think the coma would still be caused be hypoxia and not high CO2.

Nope, since you will be replenishing your tissue oxygen stores during the "recovery" step.

Anyway, I mentioned this mostly as a joke, hence the :duh .

 

[donmoore]

2. Inhaling pure oxygen and holding the breath (high O2 blunts the CO2 breathing reflex, allowing supernormal CO2 levels to be reached)

Eric, your such a mind blower! I never thought that higher O2 could actually help you obtain higher CO2 levels! Have you ever done experiments with your metering equipment that show the difference in CO2 obtain between non-movement and movement holds? Such as a still dry static and walking dynamic?

I have always felt that walking dynamics pushed my CO2 tolerance higher for statics. If the level of CO2 is high, then maybe combing your number 2 method (breathing in pure O2) with walking dynamics would be beneficial to building CO2 tolerance and would be easy to do equipment and safety wise.
don

 

[DeepThought]

Nope, since you keep adding CO2 (and only CO2) from your body. Eventually CO2 will displace even nitrogen from the bag, granted that you will have to keep doing this for a VERY long time.

Are you suggesting that the nitrogen will be absorbed in the tissues? or that you can selectively inhale/exhale different gasses?
I just can't understand how the nitrogen will be kicked out of this circle.

 

[efattah]

Don,

I think you're on the right track about moving. This has been demonstrated by the Duke study, where subjects inhaling 100% O2 and then exercising on a stationary bike eventually blacked out from CO2 narcosis.

On the other hand, I know of no person who ever succeeded in blacking out from CO2 during a 100% O2 static.

 

[DeepThought]

Eric (or anyone), what is the mechanism of CO2 blackout? nevous system toxicity? blood pH?
Are there any numbers as to CO2 % in lungs, blood CO2 saturation or blood PPCO2?

 

[ADR]

I tried a soda syphon bulb as they are cheap and a clean source of pure CO2. I bought a bunch from a local super market but haven't been game to give it another go. I did three pure CO2 holds with about 3mins recovery each time and they were all less than a minute and with instant strong contractions. The CO2 leaves that soda water taste in the back of your throat for quite a while and gave me a 24hr headache....not sure if there is any future for this type of training

 

[DeepThought]

Which leaves me with another question: how does one get rid of a CO2 headache? Is it possible to build tolerance against those CO2 headaches?

I remember Eric suggested for prevention to do the breathold with the chin tucked to the chest, still am curious if anyone knows how to treat the symptom.

 

[ADR]

I think the susceptibility to a CO2 headache maybe an indicator of low CO2 tolerance. I’m very susceptible to them and use to get them often on scuba while trying to conserve air by skip breathing etc and my CO2 tolerance is pretty poor.

Not sure on the cure for them as meds only seem to mask them a little bit. I imagine getting on O2 for a while would cure them.

 

[Oligo]

Are you suggesting that the nitrogen will be absorbed in the tissues? or that you can selectively inhale/exhale different gasses?
I just can't understand how the nitrogen will be kicked out of this circle.

No, I'm not suggesting that. See, when you do the recovery phase, you will be loading your blood with oxygen. Then you exhale completely and inhale what is in the bag. Your body will add carbon dioxide to the mix (the oxygen in your blood will convert to CO2). Then you blow the new mix into the bag, close it and recover. When you repeat this enough many times, more and more carbon dioxide will be added to the bag. Eventually the bag will be full of gas and some of it will leak out. This leakage contains nitrogen among other things. If you keep going, solely carbon dioxide will be added to the bag and all gases in the bag will leak out. See what I mean?

 

[perow1]

I was reading Erics other post about acidifying the blood/body water. Inhaling pure CO2 must have an effect on this. First it leaves you with a very acidic feeling (hmmmm...) and second we have the headaces. I have not experienced more than slight headaces, but may these be a result from both CO2 narcosis and acidified body fluids?

I too have a hard time understanding how repeated exhales in a plastic bag would push away the nitrogen. Since CO2 is such a small part of the gas mixture in your lungs after even a maximum static. In the case of leakage it must be purely theoretical and a lifelong project....
....but I do not know. Seems strange to me.

 

[Oligo]

You hit the nail on the head! It IS purely theoretical and a lifelong project. :duh

Being more serious though, I must point out that inhaling nearly pure CO2 into your lungs is quite a dangerous undertaking. This will reverse gas exchange in the lungs: Carbon dioxide will start to flow from the lungs to the blood and if pure CO2 is used, this flow is quite rapid. The pH balance of your body can be screwed up really fast and symptoms of CO2 poisoning include coma or even death.

If you want to get your body used to high CO2, I suggest the ye olde repeated static breath holds.

 

[DeepThought]

I think I understood what you're saying.
You are mad.
It still won't work.