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Invert Roller spearguns (e.g. Neptunus)

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Mr. X

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Came across a couple of interesting/pretty/weird/complex looking spearguns on youtube. I think both are probably Greek.

This one appears to have a band above the barrel & maybe 2-4 underneath using some kind of pulley arrangement. Quite complex, sure is pretty - and very powerful:


Somewhat simpler, bands only underneath the barrel!


Anybody have more information on these? Some detail images perhaps?
 
I'm still a bit baffled by the whole inverted roller set-up and the mechanics behind the pulley systems... I'll have to make some time to study Pete's schematics and try and get my head around it but did have a look at the Neptunus guns. Beautiful and seems really well balanced and powerful!

What I like about the inverted set-up is the bulk of the rubber and bigger pulley’s sit at the back of the gun. So it's possible to have a very thin muzzle which will aid in tracking fish.

Tommy Botha has been experimenting with them and I had a look at one he built. Ridiculous how easy it is to load the gun and recoil is virtually non-existent. I've asked him to build me one so will hopefully be able to report back on performance in the near future.

I came across another beautiful inverted roller gun manufactured by a guy in Bulgaria. Evidently he is a master carbon fibre craftsman:

DSC00031.jpg
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The Bulgarian inverted roller gun looks fab :) Although enclosing the rubbers like that makes the back rather wide - but I guess that is less critical than height and at the back rather than the front.

Would love to see what Tommy Botha comes up with. (Any word of our old friend Miles?)
 
I did some pool testing with Tommy last Thursday. He brought a 1.05m inshore gun with 4x14mm rubbers and a 1.2m with 6x14mm which he set up as a blue water gun.

There's still some tweaking to be done on the buoyancy and balance. Also, both guns were severely detuned - rubbers still too long and not pre-tensioned, but even in this state we got phenomenal performance. I made some targets out of an old surfboard I cut into sections but was worried that the guns will have a tough time getting the spear into the tough outer fibreglass shell.

At a distance of 7m the 1.05m was incredibly accurate and with a light 6.5mm spear managed to shoot through the target. At 9m the 1.2m gun pushed a 8mm spear right through the target!

The most amazing thing was the lack of recoil. My 4 band blue water gun kicks like a mule so to have a gun which tracks like a 1.2, has no recoil and shoots as hard and far as a proper blue water gun is a titillating prospect.

As for Miles:

With the Tuna season in full swing over here Miles is out there targeting them on most days. When he's not catching monsters of the deep he's usually out with the family catching fish elsewhere and both his kids are already very good at outfishing their dad.:LOL:

On the spearfishing side things are bit quieter. He recently got a roller gun from Tommy but family and work commitments keeps him from spending too much time underwater. I did however tell him that I'm going to drag him with us when the Yellowtail are running properly on Struisbaai / Arniston side so he better keep his spears sharp.:)
 
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Sounds promising. I expect no images of Tommy Botha's spearguns until they become commercially available.

Good to hear Miles is well and enjoying his family. Kids grow up quick. Sounds like the children will be formible fishers, just like Ma & Pa :)
 
Have you heard of anyone enclosing the lower surface of the gun? For example the carbon gun you've posted images of, if you placed a thin panel covering the belly of the front 2/3 of the gun you may be able to reduce traverse drag without interfering with the operation. Heard of this being done? I'm an engineer and can't help considering it
 
I say 2/3 not looking at w bands in rest position but the front of the gun produces the most leverage from traverse drag. Could cover more of you wanted. Would need the front clear so the contraction bands weren't resisted by temporary vacuum
 
So, after many months of refining and tweaking I finally got my new Tommy Botha reverse roller gun.

TommyBothaRR.jpg


The purpose of the gun: Inshore hunting around South Africa with 70% targeting Yellowtail and 30% bottom and other reef fish. Typical visibility range 5-15m.

The setup:
Length
: 1.15m
Shooting Line: Double laced 2mm mono-filament.
Spear: 150cm x 7mm double sharkfin single Hawaiian flopper.
Bands: 4 x 16mm. When loaded stretched to 300%
Reel: MVD Full Steel Medium
Other: All the rest of the components, trigger mech, pulleys, handle etc are either custom built or specifically customised by Tommy.

First-off, the finish of the gun is just incredible - it truly is a multi-purpose gun as it works just as well hanging on my wall looking like a piece of art as it does hunting fish. Also, I don't think people really appreciate how amazing a perfectly balanced and neutrally buoyant gun feels underwater. When letting go of the handle the gun just hangs there where I left it. When laying in aspetto waiting for a fish to come in, there's no fighting any part of the gun to keep it pointed at the target.

TommyBothaRR3.jpg


Compared to my old standard roller gun, the lack of recoil is noticeable, so much so, it feels as if the gun is a bit underpowered... but the shots I have taken so far doesn't show it and some of the other spearo's that have these guns have reported accurate shots of up to 9m. I do however think that there is still some performance to be gained by tweaking the bands. The beauty of the way Tommy engineered the reverse roller pulley setup makes it's very easy to play around with the band configuration and I can easily change and test bands during a spearing session.

TommyBothaRR2.jpg


The streamlined shape of the gun and very small muzzle makes tracking fast moving fish much easier than my old gun. With the old gun when tracking a fish which was swimming broadside to me I had to aim the muzzle in front of the fish in order to give me a few milliseconds to stabilize and aim before taking the shot. None of that is necessary with the new one, it's simply track, aim for the spot on the fish I want to hit and fire.

Length wise the 115cm is good match for the intended purpose of the gun - long enough to provide adequate range for those clean water days when the fish are skittish but short enough to be manoeuvrable for reef hunting. Although it's possible to load all the bands at once using the pulley system it is pretty difficult so I load the one band set with the pulley and then flip the gun over and load the other one.

TommyBothaRR1.jpg


The 7mm spear seems to fit the gun perfectly, light enough to travel at speed and heavy enough to provide good punch. I took a Rob Allen steel spear and Tommy also managed to get his hands on a couple Riffe stainless steel spears. I don't think that there will be any major difference between the two but finding quality stainless steel spears in SA seems to be difficult at the moment, so after a big Yellowtail pretzeled my last spare SS spear I'll use the Riffe one only during the winter season on the Western Cape when we usually only encounter smaller class Yellowtail.

BentSpear.jpg


The rest of the gun is pretty much what I have come to expect from Tommy's guns. Simplified perfection... it just works. The trigger mech is the same one he uses in all his blue water Tuna guns which means it's strong enough handle A LOT of pressure. On the Tuna subject, the bigger version of this gun has already accounted for quite a few monster Yellowfin Tuna's this season. The question on the durability of the rollers, pulleys and how the dyneema lacing will wear is still out there but time will tell and I'll report back after a few seasons of use.

Some tweaks that are still to made and things to test:

The current bands are 16mm Rob Allen blue rubber. I'm keen to replace the one 16mm set with 18mm. I think this will give me a wider range of up-tuning or detuning the gun for different hunting scenarios. Then, I'll also try switching different modulus types giving the something like Salvimar acid green rubber, which has a lower modulus (more stretch and progressive contraction ) than Rob Allen and see which provides the best feel and power.

Currently the pulleys and rollers are standard Delrin on stainless bushing. Tommy gave a me set of pulleys with bearings which I still have to fit and test and he is also manufacturing rollers with bearings which I will hopefully get my hands on in the very near future to test. My worry with the bearings are that it will add extra maintenance to the gun but if it produces significant performance gains then it may well be worth the extra maintenance and expense.

The last thing I'll change is replacing all the knotted dyneema sections with a spliced harness. This won't add any real performance but will satisfy the neat freak in me.

TommyBothaRR4.jpg


By all accounts this gun is designed and works exceptionally well and I don't think it will be long before it relegates my previous favourite gun, the standard Tommy roller, to a permanent resting place on the gun rack at home. I also think Tommy imparted a very healthy dose of good Mojo to my gun as the very first drift and very first shot with the gun produced a fantastic result.

In a once in a lifetime dive we ran into a massive shoal of Kabeljou, also known as Mulloway or Jewfish, on Skipskop bank off the Southern Coast. This a VERY rare sight for this area and truly special to be able to take this fish there.



It made a delicious meal and the vid reminds me how fortunate we are to partake in the amazing sport and also have a legend like Tommy around that eagerly shares his craft, knowledge and wisdom. This sentiment is echoed by all the other spearos I know using the gun.

TommyBothaRR5.jpg
 
I was confused about turning my 1.15m wooden speargun into invert roller but when ı read your posts ı decided to do it Thank you for your share. If you help me about calculating band lenght i will be very apriciate I want to use 4 x 16mm band with 150 cm x 7mm shaft , but ı am confused about band lenghts.
 
Hi Hasan,

By the sounds of it your set-up is very similar to the gun in my post above.
The band length is 30cm for each of the four bands.

Hope this helps and please post some photos once you've converted your gun.
 
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Hi Hasan,

By the sounds of it your set-up is very similar to the gun in my post above.
The band length is 30cm for each of the four bands.

Hope this helps and please post some photos once you've converted your gun.

Thanks a lot, i will post some photos after my work done
 
Hi again ,
Here is my new speargun
I will test it tomorrow morning .

That looks great! How did the testing go?


On my gun:
I've now changed the standard pulleys to pulleys with bearings and also received the rollers with bearings which I still have fit to the gun. The bearing pulleys make a noticeable difference when loading, so my assumption is that they will also have a influence when shooting - I can however not say by how much.

I've also played around with the bands, swopping the 16mm bands for 18mm. The most comfortable setup thus far is 1x18mm inner set which is loaded by the pulleys and combined with 1x16mm set which I load by hand. Performance wise this combination seems to work well but again, unfortunately I can't say exactly how much harder the gun is shooting compared with the standard 2x16mm set.

I really need to find a way to test the actual energy, velocity and impact values... :banghead:
 
I couldnt test it too, vision is very poor for 2 days and ı dont have a pool that allowed spearguns in İ will test the impact very soon and post it here. İf ı had mistakes with my language sorry for that ı hope you can understand me easily. See you soon keep in touch
 
I know this thread is getting a little old, but I am looking into the neptunucs set up from the video, but I can’t find a link to purchase anywhere. Also i can’t tommy boltha inverted rollers for sale either. Can anyone help me out?
 
triton roller by ante perica rijeka croatia
triton.jpg
made before 7 years triton.jpg
 
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