Irregular Heartbeat and Freediving

[glubglub]

Hi.

I just made an acquaintance that I think is a perfect candidate for the sport, as she was in synchro team in her youth. However, a few years ago, she was diagnosed with irregular heartbeat, and her doc told her to stop any activities that increase her heart up quickly (according to her, even lifting weights!) . She got depressed early on as she was athletic before, but she's gotten over it and now mostly doing yoga and pilates.

So, my question is, can she engage in freediving safely?

I know it's always in case-by-case basis, but in general, does having irregular heartbeat diagnosis straight out prevents you from freediving?

 

[Simos]

I am no doctor but I would guess it would be wise not to get into freediving :-(

Anyway a forum is not the best idea for this - why does she not just go to a doctor?

 

[Rik]

Well, that depends on the diagnosis, since irregular heart-beat can be several different rhythm problems. Like Simos wrote, an cardiologist or sport physican can help her to determine of freediving is something she could do.

 

[glubglub]

Thank you all for the responses.

I'm hoping someone with medical experience in the community would chime in on this, since freediving is probably not well understood by normal docs. I agree sports docs probably would know better. I always believe in getting second opinion, and I haven't asked her if she's done that.

I just think it's a little harsh if her doc told her not to do any exercises with elevated heart rate (not that I know for sure what the doc actually said). If anything, I believe in gradual conditioning. Most of the times, doctors want the safest for the patient (and themselves too, from lawsuits) by sticking by the book and telling their patients not to do anything that even remotely may aggravate the condition.

Had we all asked our docs, "Hey doc, I plan to go dive down 20m on a single breath of air", do you think your doc will say "Hey, that's a great idea! Go ahead and go deeper, say, to 25m"? Just saying

Safety first, I know.

 

[trullalla]

i guess it depends which is the cause of her condition (and cure it if there is something wrong with her: just sitting around won't fix it)
i just recently got an arrhythmia (extrasystole) and all the tests are negative, which means im healthy and it's probably just coming from stress, and the doctor actually recommended that i do sport because when the hr is higher the beat gets back to normal and the extrasystole disappears.
it's no affecting my freediving, at least i dont feel it when i freedive, but im not doing any deep diving at the moment
she should have all sorts of tests made and get to the cause of the problem, and only then i guess she would know what she should do.

linda

 

[trux]

I'm hoping someone with medical experience in the community would chime in on this,

Rik is a medical doctor (as far as I know), and a freediver in plus, so you better listen to his advices

 

[Dr.Freedive]

I'm a medical student in my final year and am doing my master thesis on ventricular and supraventricular premature beats in ultra marathon. It's fairly common for athletes to have these Sves/Ves as they have a larger heart. It does depend on the case though an I would advise her to get an holter ecg during 24 hours to make sure that she knows If she has them very often. Because it's the frequency and not the existence of them that is important. And yes Lotta you will be fine, I check you ot when I come on the 25
If however which I doubt it is an av-block or anything similar I would advise against serious freediving.
One thing I would advise is also to do some dry statics when she has the 24 hour ecg taken.

 

[Simos]

i just recently got an arrhythmia (extrasystole) and all the tests are negative, which means im healthy and it's probably just coming from stress

From the little I read, arrhythmia can also be caused by hypoxia or hypercapnia... I know it might not be a possibility for you but if you could do it, might be worth taking a few days off any type of breatholding and seeing if it gets better. Just an idea, as I a said I am not expert in the subject - just hear the word 'stress' coming out of some doctors' mouths far too often when they cannot explain something... Having said this, it's unbelievable what effects real stress can have on the body (I know people that had temporary loss of vision and lots of similar things from stress)

 

[Dr.Freedive]

Cardial Stress in the case of freediving means high bloodpressure, high peripheral resistance, centralisation. High ejection volume and very high diastolic pressure in the right atrium, about the left i would have to look up. Because lotta is quite trained she has s large atrium which leads to supraventricular extrasystole under stress which can be a dive or orher strenious activity. I have some info about this from uptodate which is a clinical ressource with tons of info.

 

[trullalla]

even though i would be very happy if it was lotta having the arrhythmia, unfortunately it is not so, and i have it instead
however, simos, i wasn't doing any kind of diving when it started (except snorkelling in the philippines at around 5 meters), and i havent done any breath hold training since september last year, so i can't really blame hypoxia or hypercapnia.
it is getting very much better, now i'm feeling it slightly every second day maybe, if im in bed and lie on my left side and actively think about it, otherwise it's all normal.
i dont feel anything funny when i'm doing sport or freediving, but i think next time i'll go in the water i'll wear the galileo with the heart rate monitor; even though you can't clearly see an arrhythmia you can see if the hr has a different profile than usual.

linda

 

[Dr.Freedive]

sorry linda about mistaking you for lotta
the heartrate monitor is not gonna show the arrythmias, you would need a water proof (holter) ECG,
best regards
bernhard

 

[Simos]

even though i would be very happy if it was lotta having the arrhythmia, unfortunately it is not so, and i have it instead
however, simos, i wasn't doing any kind of diving when it started (except snorkelling in the philippines at around 5 meters), and i havent done any breath hold training since september last year, so i can't really blame hypoxia or hypercapnia.
it is getting very much better, now i'm feeling it slightly every second day maybe, if im in bed and lie on my left side and actively think about it, otherwise it's all normal.
i dont feel anything funny when i'm doing sport or freediving, but i think next time i'll go in the water i'll wear the galileo with the heart rate monitor; even though you can't clearly see an arrhythmia you can see if the hr has a different profile than usual.

linda

Glad it's getting better Linda - hope it all goes away soon. I was just taking a shot in the dark - stress does do strange things to people, take it easy... :friday

 

[Tall Paul]

I've always been aware that I have an irregular heartbeat, particularly under stress, confirmed once when I wound up in A&E thinking I was having a heart attack. (Fortunately it wasn't ... just another stress-related condition.) But in my case my heartbeat gets more regular when under load.

I took up recreational freediving 7 years ago (when 45) and have been fine. The important thing is that freediving shouldn't raise the heartbeat or put the heart under stress, and any regular exercise is better than none.

My advice: seek medical advice from a doctor in very gentle terms, say 'you want to increase the amount of physical exercise you do' or similar. Would swimming be sufficiently close to the truth not to alarm the GP?

 

[Simos]

I've always been aware that I have an irregular heartbeat, particularly under stress, confirmed once when I wound up in A&E thinking I was having a heart attack. (Fortunately it wasn't ... just another stress-related condition.) But in my case my heartbeat gets more regular when under load.

I took up recreational freediving 7 years ago (when 45) and have been fine. The important thing is that freediving shouldn't raise the heartbeat or put the heart under stress, and any regular exercise is better than none.

My advice: seek medical advice from a doctor in very gentle terms, say 'you want to increase the amount of physical exercise you do' or similar. Would swimming be sufficiently close to the truth not to alarm the GP?

Hmmm not sure I totally agree with everything above Paul - swimming and freediving are quite different in terms of what happens to the body so I don't think asking the doctor about swimming when you really mean freediving is the best idea. You might as well not ask a doctor in the first place

Also I don't think freediving is as gentle as you think on the heart or body in general. It's definitely not the case of 'any exercise is better than none' when it comes to freediving with certain medical conditions.

Lastly, don't rely 100% on info from a GP about these things - most GPs I've spoken to know very little about diving and especially freediving, nor they are experts in heart conditions. Obviously they are generalists so hopefully if there is a heart condition they would refer you to a specialist but if they don't I wouldn't take their word for it and ask for a second opinion from a specialist.

 

[Dr.Freedive]

Even i bradycardia a heart can be under stress physiologically in such a way that arrythmias occur more frequently. I'm writing a paper about Exactly this matter in marathon runners so I should know as I read most lituature .GPs usually know less about freediving physiology than experienced forum members like trux or eric for instance.
Get an 24 hour ecg do some dry statics and you might see if you are predisposed. Also 20 sec post apnea the heart is even more under stress.

 

[Haydn]

I had this problem around 10 years ago (Atrial Fibrilation). In fact it was present since my very first freedives, but I ignored it. Over the years it gradually got worse, until the arryhthmia was 24/7 and like rubbish bongo drums.

The problem in freediving was noticed mostly during warm up breathing and statics, where I found it particularly difficult to ignore the faulty heart beat. If I were to put some effort in, the heart beat would become regular. It was rubbish below 60 bpm. I believe that is why I could never do a good static, yet could do big dynamics.

Eventually I went to see the Doc and two operations and two years later, my heart was fixed and has never missed a beat since. During this period, the Doc forbade freediving (actually it wasnt the diving he was worried about, but the apnea aspect). When I eventually got back in the water I messed up my hearing. So it was back to my first love after that and I havent dived since.

Still getting very wet though.

 

[trullalla]

hi haydn,

did you get heart surgery because of the arrhythmia? or was the arrhythmia the symptom of some heart malfunction?

all my tests were negative and the doc said i'm ok and that many people have that and it's harmless and that most likely it will go away soon...but now that i see your post im getting worried again...
i really can tell that mine is connected with stress, mostly work related.

i also noticed that under exercises the heart become regular again, and it's only at rest that i feel it pounding. but not while freediving (on the other hand im not doing any static or pool training, but only depth), maybe because then im calm and not thinking about worrying stuff..?
linda

 

[FreeRestriction]

Well ive had a mild heart murmur from birth and havent noticed any issues when freediving. The doc called mine a 1 out of 5 with 5 being the most severe. Never have asked a doctor if im safe to dive.

-Kenny

 

[Dr.Freedive]

Hey linda It's more frequent in athletes and i do consider you an athlete so i would assume that you have relative hyperthrophia and thus higher probability of sves\ ves than average people...
Don't worry it's harmless
Bernhard

 

[trullalla]

cool, thanks bernhard.
i guess that science doesn't really know if freediving is bad for this kind of condition?
if the arrhythmia is more pronounced the lower the hr is, then bradycardia might not be a good thing to have?
sometimes as im at depth a thought flashes through my mind: what if my heart stops beating? and that doesn't do much good to relaxation!!