• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Lift tongue off palate to frenzel?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
M

mrjomac

Guest
Hi folks, I've read quite a few threads on frenzel and couldn't find an answer to this, so here's the question.

Should I be lifting my tongue off the palate every now and then to let more air into the space above the tongue to piston up into the sinuses?

The reason I ask is because it feels like I'm running out of air to frenzel with at various depths.
I've been down to 20 and 24m with no problems and on other dives it feels like the pressure starts to squeeze my head (not chest) and I have no air left to equalize with. Today I noticed this at 14m.

What I think may be happening is that because I tend to frenzel leaving my tongue on my palate and piston with a rhythm about once a second without lifting my tongue, I run out of air to equalize with above the tongue.

If I do have to lift the tongue off the palate how often should I do this? Every time I piston with the tongue or what?

I've tried mouthfill a few times but think I shouldn't need it at these depths. When I mouthfill I think my tongue is lifted off the palate, then I start to frenzel and can equalize again.

I equalize before the dive, dive on full lungs, I look straight ahead to equalize and look down occasionally to check I'm not going to hit something, there's no real pattern as to what dives or what depths I run out of air to EQ on really.
 
Reactions: charlie.
Anyone... do you lift your tongue off your palate occasionally as you frenzel to avoid running out of air, or keep it stuck up there all the time?
 
mrjomac,
I'm not quite sure what you mean.. lifting your tongue off your palate allows more air to enter your mouth to piston back into your station tubes, if I'm not mistaken. How deep are you usually going? I have never felt a squeeze in my head before. I frequently dive to 20-23 meters and then back into a cavern and have never felt a head squeeze. I'm not really sure how to answer your question. Can you be more specific? If you don't take your tongue off your palate then you have no more air to equalize with. I lift my tongue off my palate every 2 equalizations or so. How often do you equalize? I don't really know how to answer your question so I should probably just shut my mouth, haha.
 
Hi Jake,
I'm going about the same depth as you, 20-25 and this squeeze can start as soon as about 15m. I think it's because I tend to keep my tongue pressed against the roof of my mouth and therefore run out of air to frenzel with. The times I've done a mouthfill in fact I went deeper no prob but I would just like to understand why this is happening as I thought I could get down to 30ish without mouthfill.
When equalising I keep pistoning with my tongue about maybe once a second.
I'll definitively try lifting my tongue off my palate with no mouthfill and see what happens.

Another good tip I've had from our local apnea group is: dive with cheeks full, equalize mask and take another mouthfill at about 10m then I should be good down to 30-40. Haven't had the chance to try this yet.
 
Ok I see. I would just try lifting the tongue off the palate. This allows more air to get above your tongue for you to piston back.... I think. Like I said, I don't do any mouthfill or any fancy stuff and where I dive allows me to go about 75 sometimes 80 feet (23-24meters) and I've never had a problem without the mouthfill and I think I can do deeper without it. I would PM someone who really knows about this kind of thing. I think you could do 30 meters or more without the mouthfill. How deep have you been without the mouthfill? When does it seem like you won't be able to equalize anymore?


Jake
 
Hi Jake, it kind of varies so hard to say but around 15-20m, then I have to mouthfill which methinks is too soon. That's why I also suspect it's because I'm not lifting my tongue off the roof of my mouth so run out of air at around that depth to equalize with as I'm only using a tiny percentage of the air reserve by sealing off the top part with my tongue.
Next time the storms calm down I'll try lifting tongue every few frenzels.
 
If I had to guess, that's the problem. I think if you lift the tongue of you palate you'll be fine. 20m isn't deep enough to make mouthfill worth your time. Maybe 40m or so you should use it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…