Long fins don't help me

[petej]

Hello everyone, i'm a relatively new diver, been doing it about a year and a half and I have a bit of a problem. I have a pair of long blade beauchat fins, but I do better with short ones. I've used four different types of fins, two short ones and two long ones. for whatever reason, hopefully someone has an idea, i dive better with short fins.

here are the fins I use:

Beauchat "Goldfin": older fin I got used, it is similar to a mundial as far as I can tell. These are what I usually dive with. When I first got them they felt really wierd and I dove awfully with them, but I figured I just had to get used to it and now that I have I dive ok, but still do better with others. they have a 22" blade

Mares scuba fin: these are just a generic mares scuba fin, 15" blade and fairly stiff. This is what I used for a long time and can dive just as well with these as the beauchats.

Fins at the pool: THese are super cheap little yellow fins with MAYBE an 8" blade. interestingly enough, I dive best with these, at least in dynamic, I have not tried actually diving with them.

Cressi gara 3000: My friend has these and I have tried them, they feel pretty good, but about like the beauchats just a little longer/more work

So heres the testing I have been doing, I train in the pool with my friend, and I can do 75m dynamic with the pool fins right now. When I bring the beuachats to the pool, I can't get past 50 or 60m... So today I brought the Mares to the pool to see how they compare, I did 50m and it didn't feel too hard but definitely could not have gotten 75m. so that is pretty frustrating I don't know why I dive so well with the short crappy pool fins.

Also I timed myself today just out of curiosity. I've read that 1m/second is sort of an average/typycal speed. I found out I go A LOT slower than that. I just did 25m at my normal comfortable pace and it was about 35 seconds, maybe a little more. then I tried to do it at 1m/sec and it felt like I was racing kicking as fast as I could, so obviously I like a slow fin stroke, could that have anything to do with why long fins aren't helping me?

How it feels to me is that a short fin is slower, but takes very little energy wheras a longer fin may be faster, but burns up more o2, so it sort of evens out.

maybe someone else has had a similar experience? Maybe I just need to try more long fins?

Thanks a lot for any input/responses

Pete

 

[tim_a]

Just train a lot with your long fins. The first time I used freediving fins they also feld really weird. I'm also a competitive swimmer so I was used to the shorter pool fins. But now I am used to the long fins. That you are slower then 1m/s isn't that bad. You should forget the time and just do your thing.
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[Simos]

Hi Pete - I'm pretty much the same as you. I think it's down to the fact that I have been training every week in the pool with the rubber training fins and have hardly used the long fins so I am not used to them. It's a combination of lacking the right technique and strength for the long fins. I tried using the long fins a few times in the pool - first time I even thought that 25m were hard in them, by the 3-4 time I could do 50m and felt ok-ish but still not as comfortable as the pool fins I normally use. I'm sure it's just a question of practice..
I did try the shorter rubber fins in open water - they felt good for shallower dives but the problem with them is that when you go a bit deeper they don't give you enough thrust at the bottom.and if you kick harder they just bend more! I wouldn't really use them for any serious dives and especially when you are doing safety for someone else - if they did have any trouble you would REALLY struggle to bring them up in those...
By the way - are you bi-finning or monofinning mainly in the pool with the training fins? I've also found out that longer plastic fins are really not good for monofinning, so I still use the rubber training fins in the pool when training monofinning...
Hope that helps!
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[rddk]

I think that you should work a lot with long fins, since u're used to short onemaybe you don't have enough muscles to let you have a good feeling using them. First times you use a long fin as they told you, the sensation of having somthing unusual is normal, the works it require is different from a snorkeling fin. Work on you muscles and you'll see improuvements. A good excercise you can do is surface swimming with the kickboard in opposition breathing any time you want, do sprints of 25 m, this will help you to get used with you new long fins.

 

[petej]

Thanks a lot guys sounds like you all agree I just need to use them more. I will start using my long fins at the pool more often.

The only thing is that I have been diving with these fins since march, and probably have around 40+ dives in them, so I have used them a lot.

Simos-I think you are right that I have just gotten used to the pool fins especially because lately I have been going every day. I think the next test I will do is to use the long ones for a while, until I am doing 50m or so very comfortably, and then go back to the pool fin and see if it still feels good or not

thanks again

 

[Simos]

Hey Pete - let me know how it goes, would be interested as I've also experienced similar issues with long fins. In my case I am sure lack of strength is largely the problem. Make sure you pay attention to how you use the long fins - the amplitude of the kick should be quite wide - depending on what fins you are using normally you'll be probably used to a faster kick with smaller amplitude.

I've gone back to using my rubber fins in the pool for now as I train mostly my monofin stroke and long fins are not good for developing a good monofin stroke...

Also pay attention to whether you're bending your knees excessively when using the long fins - it's probably a sign of not having yet developed the strength to use the long fins properly...
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[cdavis]

Not sure about your blades, but Beuchat Mundial Competitions in black are pretty stiff. Need a lot of strength to get them moving right and a wide kick (relatively straight knee) is tough. If you have the strength, you should still be able to get good power out of a strongly bent knee style. The 3000s are softer and should work better. Even softer might be a good idea as well as working more in the pool.

Kicking styles for short and long fins are so different that staying mostly with one will probably make the other inefficient.

Connor

 

[Simos]

I have a pair of cressi professional LDs - not sure how their stiffness compares to other fins. If money wasn't an issue i would have probably gone for carbons as they look like they need less strength. Like Pete I like a slower, more relaxed pace of kicking..
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[petej]

Simos-thanks for the info I will work on my finstroke, I actually worked on it for quite a while at the pool today but I will continue to do so because you are definitely right that it needs to be wider and slower.

Connor-The blades are actually pretty soft, probably because they are old fins, I bought them at a garage sale (10 bucks!) so I don't know how old or anything about them really, they just LOOK similar to the mundials but i've never used any other beauchat fins so I really don't know how they compare.

 

[azapa]

long freedive fins suck in a pool IMHO, better in the ocean. In a pool any decent fin seems fine to me, use them dolphin kick style. My PB in dynamic is with Tecnosub Stratas. A monofin is a complete step forward though.

 

[petej]

long freedive fins suck in a pool IMHO, better in the ocean. In a pool any decent fin seems fine to me, use them dolphin kick style. My PB in dynamic is with Tecnosub Stratas. A monofin is a complete step forward though.

Ok that is kind of how I feel, they definitely seem to be as good as my others when I am diving, it's just at the pool when I feel like they hold me back. Very interesting, thank you. I will continue to use them at the pool though and see how it goes.

 

[cdavis]

Remember, longfins are designed for efficiency, going the greatest distance with the least 02 consumption, not speed. They may be fastand/or short fins might be faster, but that's not the point.

 

[neurodoc]

I've snorkeled with short fins for years, and have been using Cressi 3000 long fins for almost a year now, mostly in a 25m pool. Much of the difference IMO is what kick frequency you're used to using. Normal swimmers feel better in shorter fins I think because they're used to kicking so fast. You can't kick that fast with long fins, and if you try, you burn up a whole lot of oxygen. Each fin seems to have its own frequency/strength of kicking that is optimum. You either have to use what you're used to, or adapt your technique to the new. Long fins can make you go fast; I do the 25m of our pool in 15-16 seconds on a breath either dolphin kicking or bifin kicking, and can do 50m with it. Your 75m dynamic with short fins is good! I haven't tried past 50 due to not having spotters usually (at least, not ones that are trained to know what to do if I black out) so I play it a bit safe. But, make sure you have fun!