Long Term effects of apnea/hypoxia

[nofootprints]

Are there any long term effects on health/brain cell deterioration from repeated breathhold/blackout/samba.

I have been spearfishing for a while and as a general rule i dont push myself too hard - mainly avoid SWB ; but the other concern i have is obviously the loss of any brain cells etc (i have few enough as it is)

any views with links to any medico sites etc would be very welcome.

safe diving
NFP

 

[Polorutz]

since your brain has those defense mechanisms (SWB and Samba), you are actually not losing a single brain cell from freediving or at least that is what is believed...

See?, your brain keeps all the blood to itself and therefore all the oxygen, that's why u get Sambas, your brain doesn't want all the oxygen going to your limbs and therefore "shuts them off", making you all clumsy, wobbly and shaky... in a SWB your brain "shuts off" completely avoiding the expenditure of that little percentage of O2 left and focuses it only on the basic living functions such as heartbeat and oxygenation of the brain... your get brain damage aproximately 5 minutes AFTER the SWB...

 

[efattah]

There is another thread on DB abouth the POSITIVE effects of apnea swimming on brain functioning and IQ, in fact it was shown that apnea permanently increases brain blood flow (widens carotid arteries). Personally I have felt my intelligence INCREASING rather than decreasing ever since I started freediving & apnea.

 

[hardhat]

I would have thought all the brain damage would have come first (before taking up freediving). What else can explain the desire to go deep down into the ocean without any air other then the breath in you lungs. Personally, I can honestly say, I must have lost my few brain cells that I had left, sucking air out of a scuba cylinder for so many years, that now I have this uncontrlable urge to learn how to hold my breath under water and go down deep under the ocean, where we (humans and me) weren't ment to be. I guess that's why we don't have gills.

 

[DeepThought]

your get brain damage aproximately 5 minutes AFTER the SWB...

I head that a few times before (usually with a 4 minute time) and I think it is wrong. Or atleast it is based on a wrong assumption.
I think what medical science claims is that brain damage starts 4 minutes after lose of life functions, I don't remember if it's referred just to breathing or also to circulation (does anyone remember?).
Hypoxic blackout is different from that anyway, a person who got a heart attack (for example) would probably have his (artirial) blood saturated to 90-100% and his tissues saturated with O2 as well when the clock starts. In the case of an hypoxic blackout the blood is already at 60-40% (or even lower), and his tissues are probably far from saturated, on the other hand the heart is still circulating blood so there's different PPO2 in the brain per that saturation percentage. I don't think the occasional LMC/BO generates brain damage, but I think that the 4 minute assumption is wrong. (I also doubt the 4 min assumption for normal medical cases but I admit I didn't look too far into it).
I think it is safe to say that brain damage occures sometime after blackout, and that the safety's first priority is to get the diver breath again ASAP.

 

[naiad]

I hope it's ok... I've been holding my breath a lot over the last two years... *gulp*

Keep an eye on the quality of my future posts to monitor the effects of apnea.

Lucia

 

[nofootprints]

Good start .Thanks for your comments. Anybody got a link to any scientific evidential data etc. Be interesting to note esp. when brain damage kicks in (resulting from lack of oxygen) and also what mitigating impact "mammalian effect" might have.

 

[Paul Kotik]

I used to know, but I forgot.

What is my name again ?

 

[samdive]

seriously... I definitely believe that diving has had an effect on my memory, but not freediving, scuba diving. My short term memory is dramatically more sh**e than it used to be since I have been scuba diving! most of the instructors I have worked with agree that they feel the same. Too much water between the ears, they reckon goldfish only have a 3 second memory, maybe that is something to do with it.

S

 

[Polorutz]

Well I started doing some tests and I am actually holding my breath right now, scientificahny tstest comg mopmmy?

 

[ggarrett]

since your brain has those defense mechanisms (SWB and Samba), you are actually not losing a single brain cell from freediving or at least that is what is believed...

I am not so sure about that...

I talked to my brain doctor about sambas and blackouts. Sambas are basically seizures which are neurological in nature. They result from stresses on the nervous system... misfiring neurons, electron charges, and other things that I don't udnerstand, like free radicals, etc. Nerves are cells that do not regenerate readily, if at all. So, the nerves you got are basically the only ones you will have. Messing them up with repeated sambas and blackouts could potentially cause permanent damage. Does that stop me? No. But I try to avoid sambas and BOs at all costs? Yes.

I know if I try to do simple addition in my head after a maximum dynamic, I have a hard time figuring my distance. This is true when I come up clean- no sambas, no shakes. After some more cleansing breaths, I'm okay and can add.

For me, paying attention to my vision and body feelings at the end of a maximum has helped me avoid sambas and even minor twitches and tremors. However, I have noticed that sambas occur on shorter maximums while my longer/longest maximums I come up clean. Go figure. I think it has to do with rest, tiredness, and outside stress.

Anyway, brain cells and nerve cells are closely related, if not one and the same. In my opinion, hypoxia to the point of samba or BO can cause damage to these cells. Common sense tells me that anything that feels that bad can not be all that good for us and should be avoided through practice and self control.

I believe that good diet with proper hydration and antioxidants is important in offsetting possible ill effects of extreme hypoxia. Overall, not to sound conceited, I believe that freedivers are a healthier and more intelligent bunch than the average person because apnea requires a lot of self awareness at the physical, mental and spiritual levels. Conclusion: apnea can be good for you.

For what it's worth.

Peace,
Glen

 

[naiad]

Once I was in a pool which is in a glass-sided building, with a public walkway outside, so it is possible to see passers-by outside a few metres away from the pool. I had just come up from a dynamic (not a max distance, but with short intervals) when I noticed someone outside was looking in at me. After a few seconds I felt annoyed and disturbed by the woman outside, who continued staring at me. I said something like 'Why is she staring at me?'. Then I realised I was looking at my own reflection in the window.

Lucia

 

[Alison]

LOL No way!! rofl I bet you felt a fool rofl I hate it when passers by wear swimsuits like mine rofl

 

[DeepThought]

That's definitly one of the wierdest apnea stories I've heard. But I regard 'weird' as a compliment so there.

I think confusion after performance shouldn't be related to brain damage.
I initiated a newbie 2 weeks ago, and at the surface after his first 20m dive to the deck of that wreck we were at (with plastic snorkel fins and crappy technique for not listening to all of my tips!) he started talking French at me. He was French so don't be alarmed, it wasn't that kind of a brain damage ().
It reminded me to one of my first weeks of freediving when I was a newbie, surfacing and talking Hebrew to Bevan (who is south-african) and after that wondering "why the hell did I do that?".
Not saying that post-performance confusion are the just the newbie's realm, just saying that I think it's acceptible coming back from an altered state of mind.

 

[naiad]

Another question on the effects of apnea:

What are the effects, good or bad, of very high CO2 during apnea?

 

[le poisson chat]

Here it goes.
From P. Lindholm paper about severe hypoxemia:
no residual effects of brief unconsciesness from brain ischemia were observed but only short-term effects were studied.
Then he compares blackout to G-LOC (acceleration-induced loss of consciousness) that pilots have. That was reasonably well studied so he suggests that performing apnea should not lead to brain damage (unless near-drowning involved).
Good for us!

 

[naiad]

*sigh of relief* *deep breath*

 

[rifmaniac]

hi,
I remember reading somewhere (I think it was the "Physiologie de la plongée en apnée" by Corriol) that equilibrium problems(usually felt as a kind of dizziness) were found in some apneists (and competitor spearos).

I have myself been training (dry training: breath holding on ergometric bike) for 6months and spearfishing for 4 years; and lately I have been feeling a bit dizzy after training; the feeling usually lasts about a day.
I don't know if its because of training, because I'm revising[8hours revision/day] or because I'm astigmatic/myopic, but I am a bit worried.

Has anyone got some input on the subject?

 

[jome]

Low blood pressure? Just the first thing that comes to mind...

 

[superhornet59]

There is another thread on DB abouth the POSITIVE effects of apnea swimming on brain functioning and IQ, in fact it was shown that apnea permanently increases brain blood flow (widens carotid arteries). Personally I have felt my intelligence INCREASING rather than decreasing ever since I started freediving & apnea.

yes, i absolutely agree. freediving definately doesnt make anything worse, but i wasnt sure if there were any positive effects. it seems so, and now that i think about it (i just did a test) my iq has gone up by 12 since i started freediving back in the summer. wow! i love this sport even more. now if only we could teach stephan hawking to freediving