Looking for advice on finding "best" freedive fin

[danvolker]

I am looking to find the fastest, highest efficiency fins available. I want to use them for both freediving and scuba diving. I have been freediving for close to 10 years now, and can work 60 to 70 foot deep reefs well, and while I can hit 90feet, this causes bruising in my lungs, so I rarely go for diving reefs of this depth or greater while freediving--I use scuba for this

I have used freediving fins for scuba since the mid 90's, and my scuba gear configuration is ultra slick in the water--- DIR is actually something I helped bring from WKPP to the recreational diving community.

At the moment, without being able to "demo" the top freediving fins, I am assuming from what I've read, that the 2 best fins for me to choose from would be either the Omer Rekord fins, the 40.....or the C4 Mustang.the 40 for this ( or equiv). I "like" the longest freediving fin I can find, based on past trials with other brands. I do have a concern that the C4 is a shorter fin, but this is only based on what I have read about it, and I do not know the actual length compared to Cressi's or typical Omer fins. I like the larger surface area part, but I still prefer the longer length.

As to matching the fins to me, I am 5 foot 8, weight is about 205 ( but headed fast down to 185 on the diet and training plan I am on) , I have far more muscle mass than most divers, and can free squat over 20 reps of 295 pounds, in a set....and ride a road bike 40 miles per day, 3 to 4 days per week ( I used to race). I find it unlikely that the fins with the 40 stiffness rating would feel stiff to me, but this is pure conjecture, as I have never tried them. I like a big kick and long glide, and use the typical freedive style flutter fick, the dolphin kick, and also frequently frog kick with each freedive fin I have ever used.

So what would be the fin best for me? For scuba, I like high pace, low exertion--which is why freedive fins are so superior to traditional scuba fins ( with their high kick turnover and resultant higher heart rate).
Thanks,
Dan Volker

 

[cww180]

Based on what you have said what about some Dive R fins they are about 5cm longer than most and very durable with a 4 year warranty but pretty pricey at 365 for the blades only. The specialfin hybrid pros are also very nice but pricey also.

 

[danvolker]

Based on what you have said what about some Dive R fins they are about 5cm longer than most and very durable with a 4 year warranty but pretty pricey at 365 for the blades only. The specialfin hybrid pros are also very nice but pricey also.

OK, I guess I can thank you for adding a 3rd fin for me to concern myself with....I looked up the DiveR fins, and they do look interesting, but I am not clear if the material they are constructed with will match the material of the C4's or ReKords....I am still into absolute performance over all else. I will not be kicking off the bottom, or doing giant stride entries

As to price issue, after figuring what I have spent for my boat, my tech diving gear, rec scuba gear, and exisiting freediving gear..... whether my next freediving fins cost $300 or $3000 is a moot point....I want the best, but at the moment, I do not have a good way to find them. In the ski industry, you would be able to demo the best stuff....For freediving in Florida, not only can you not demo them, you won't even see the 3 brands fins we are discussion.

So has anyone here with strong legs, tried the C4 Mustangs against the Rekords, or the DiveR fins?
Thanks,
Dan

 

[cww180]

There is a former national champion Tony Heugh (6'5" 230lbs) who uses them, and the owner of the company Ray Powell who have taken them to 40M. Ray says in his 6 years of making them only 3 fins have broken. Just more food for thought, I'm sure carbons are great but will break much easier than the composite. Although I do know of a lot of people here who are pretty hard on their Beuchat Carbons and they still keep going strong!

 

[cdavis]

The Specialfin Hybrids, hard, (carbon/kevlar combo) might work very nice for you. I have a set. By far the fastest fins I've ever used and you can keep going fast for longer than anything else I've tried (out of Cressi 2000s, medium Specialfin kelpies, c4 vtr 25s). If you have the legs for them, they are fabulous. They are a little wider than most blades and the acceleration for spearfishing is outstanding. If you would like to try mine, I'm in Sarasota and could arrange a pool test. Also, after much testing, I've decided that the Hybrids are a bit too hard for me (I'm long and skinny); they are for sale.

Connor

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I know you say you want carbon fiber, but you also say you will kick off the bottom and do giant strides, and carbon fiber does break now and then.
I really like the Edge fiberglass fins. They are almost indestructible. I've had the Matrix (straight blade version) for about five years and they are just like new. I recently got the Edge (angled blade, better for surface swimming) for $360 in Picasso Black Team pockets, and I love them.

20Fathoms

The web site shows the Edge as blue, but they just switched to camo, and I happened to get the first pair.

 

[danvolker]

I know you say you want carbon fiber, but you also say you will kick off the bottom and do giant strides, and carbon fiber does break now and then.
I really like the Edge fiberglass fins. They are almost indestructible. I've had the Matrix (straight blade version) for about five years and they are just like new. I recently got the Edge (angled blade, better for surface swimming) for $360 in Picasso Black Team pockets, and I love them.

20Fathoms

The web site shows the Edge as blue, but they just switched to camo, and I happened to get the first pair.

What I thought I was writing was that I will NOT push off the bottom, ever...and I do NOT do giant strides...even with scuba I dive in head first.

So I would be fine with a fragile fin, as long as it is much faster/more efficient than the others....What do you think?
Dan

 

[Bill McIntyre]

What I thought I was writing was that I will NOT push off the bottom, ever...and I do NOT do giant strides...even with scuba I dive in head first.

So I would be fine with a fragile fin, as long as it is much faster/more efficient than the others....What do you think?
Dan

Oops, my bad. That is exactly what you said. I have a reading comprehension problem.

In that case, I don't know. I have not used carbon fiber, but some people have said the fiberglass are just as good, while others say they aren't.


But go read the story on the website for entertainment if nothing else. Its quite dramatic.

 

[danvolker]

Wow. What a story!!!!
Dan

 

[salibandy]

...high pace, low exertion...why freedive fins are so superior to traditional scuba fins

You want high pace and low exertion? Go for splits.

As far as I know from experience, freediving fins are not low exertion for the average scubie. But then again, you're probably very fit, so the long fins might feel like less work to you compared to the average person.

Personally, I'm a big fan of using freediving fins during scuba too. I don't understand why people try to make me conform to using normal scuba fins. I'm very careful with my fins; I don't break coral, I don't hit anybody with them, I'm as good as anyone out there in terms of maneuverabilty. Although some people have crashed into my fins.. I use the Omer Ice.rofl

I think fibreglass fins are the way for you. They're so much more durable, which you'll probably need.

 

[DivingDane]

Danvolker, from personal experience and regardless of what some people may think of DiveR fins (i have a pair aswell as Omer Rekord 3's) they are good but do not come even close in performance, what you do need to know is that these fins are not remarkably long they are about standard freediving length but my god the performance is brilliant. have used a pair of C4 but they were 30's not 40 and they were also very nice, i think you are on the right track with the carbon fins you are considering. the new C4 mustangs i think would be perfect for you and if your as strong as you say you are you will have no problems with the 40's. you must also remember that the Rekords are only available in 1 stiffness (here anyway) but it is VERY gutsy and falls in th 30 stiffness catagory i think.

Anyways either way you will love both of them.

once you go carbon you will never look back

DD

 

[danvolker]

You want high pace and low exertion? Go for splits.

As far as I know from experience, freediving fins are not low exertion for the average scubie. But then again, you're probably very fit, so the long fins might feel like less work to you compared to the average person.

Personally, I'm a big fan of using freediving fins during scuba too. I don't understand why people try to make me conform to using normal scuba fins. I'm very careful with my fins; I don't break coral, I don't hit anybody with them, I'm as good as anyone out there in terms of maneuverabilty. Although some people have crashed into my fins.. I use the Omer Ice.rofl

I think fibreglass fins are the way for you. They're so much more durable, which you'll probably need.

When you scuba dive with a freedive fin, and have a slick backplate and wing gear config, there is an amazingly efficient big kick and long glide you use.....to me, this allows incredibly low exertion and low heart rate, while traveling at speeds quite a bit faster than typical scuba divers with their pufferfish BC"s and Jet or split fins


Regards,
Dan

 

[Jon]

Hi Dan,

I remember your artice on DIR and freediving fins posted on-line some years ago (sfdj). I also dive pretty strict DIR when on scuba and have been scuba diving with freediving fins for many years.

I used to use Picasso Black Teams for scuba and now own a pair of Esclapez openheel pockets for use with my drysuit- the only footpokcets big enough to fit my footpocket.

In the past I have used my C4's for scuba, but there would be better choices. I also own a pair of Mustangs, that I love, but if it were for scuba I would listen to what Connor said and buy a pair of Specialfins' Kelpies or Pro's. You can pick a hardness to match your weight and power.

The main reason I would go with those fins is that you can still scull, frog kick, swim backwards, and do helicopter turns. With the C4's the rails on the fins really get in the way to do anything but flutter or dolphin kicks. For your type of scuba diving this would get in the way.

In a softer version I also like the Omer ICE fins, but for your weight/power level you would find then to be quite soft- especially with a few tanks on. Another option would be the Waterway bi-fins that also come in different stiffness levels. You would want at least a #3 for your purposes.

I got suckered into trying a pair of split fins once while tech diving. They were so floppy they could barely move me along with the doubles and stages I had on. :head

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

[DivingDane]

Amen Dan, personally dont agree with some of the DIR beliefs but thats for another day, but i do agree that using tech oriented diving equipement and freediving fins makes the dive MUCH more enjoyable, improving efficincy and freedom of movement. the number of times i've come up with more air than my "experienced" buddy with jet fins and have had to slowdown for them.

 

[danvolker]

Amen Dan, personally dont agree with some of the DIR beliefs but thats for another day, but i do agree that using tech oriented diving equipement and freediving fins makes the dive MUCH more enjoyable, improving efficincy and freedom of movement. the number of times i've come up with more air than my "experienced" buddy with jet fins and have had to slowdown for them.

You would probably be surpised at the "DIR for recreational", as this is far more practical for most divers. Most of it is just common sense, and is not meant to be thrown around like the ideas of the cave diving community. and I am not talking about DIR F from GUE, but rather, the original DIR that George Irvine, Bill Mee, Jarrod Jablonski, Robert Carmichael and I used to discuss as a system that would be comfortable and good for recreational divers--and back around 2000, it was my job to disemminate this stuff
Regards,
Dan

 

[salibandy]

When you scuba dive with a freedive fin, and have a slick backplate and wing gear config, there is an amazingly efficient big kick and long glide you use.....to me, this allows incredibly low exertion and low heart rate, while traveling at speeds quite a bit faster than typical scuba divers with their pufferfish BC"s and Jet or split fins


Regards,
Dan

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I dive a TransPac and wing, which I think is fine. I do disagree with the long glide, for me at least, because unlike you, I do not have the mass, so I do not glide. Physics 101.

I'm just saying that for many scubies, they do not have the leg power to kick a long fin, so low extertion doesn't really apply to them.

Anyway, what's this DIR thing you guys are talking about? Seems interesting. Enlighten me?

 

[danvolker]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I dive a TransPac and wing, which I think is fine. I do disagree with the long glide, for me at least, because unlike you, I do not have the mass, so I do not glide. Physics 101.

I'm just saying that for many scubies, they do not have the leg power to kick a long fin, so low extertion doesn't really apply to them.

Anyway, what's this DIR thing you guys are talking about? Seems interesting. Enlighten me?

Here is something I wrote about this several years ago, that explains a lot of the points of DIR for recreational scuba....
DIR Part 2

Regards,
Dan

 

[trux]

Just a comment to your original question - C4 blades, at least those with the "flap" (like the Flaps or Mustangs) are definitely not shorter than other freediving fins. Just the opposite, they are longer than most of them. So long, that I have problems putting them into my longfin bag. On the other hand, they are narrower than most other fins (though keeping the same width along the bade. On my mind that's a big advantage - unlike wide fins they do not flatter sideways when kicking. Try swimming behind and watching closely someone using C4's and another one with some wider blades, and you see the difference immediately.

 

[Jon]

Scuba divers can use Freediving fins that come in different stiffnesses. If someone is so weak in the water that they think they need split fins, or force fins, they should just get something like a #1 waterway or Special-fin's blade.

DIR is a diving philosophy. Revolves around:

Buddy diving
No deep air diving
Streamlined equipment- not carrying extra stuff without specific reason
Divers to be in top physical condition

There are other points that get much more specific, and some people get turned off because one of the founders was quite outspoken, but I've tried all of the outmoded ways and the DIR ways to dive and DIR was simply easier in the water. Case in point was starting out with steel stage bottles and moving to aluminum- made all the difference in the world for comfort in the water.

BTW: A transpac is not DIR, although the wing is. You would need to switch to a backplate and basic harness to be DIR. The reason being it's more streamlined and has fewer failure points. I've owned both and once you get the plate adjusted properly it's more comfortable and packs much smaller for travel.

Here's a couple shots of me warm water diving with carbon fins- Sporasub Pure's that broke on that trip, but I've never had a problem with C4's in all the years I've owned them. Another shot with some more toys added for trimix wreck diving in the Great Lakes. I like the system so much I even use it to teach in. The long hose used to be as point of controversy, but that is pretty standard these days and a mute point in my book. It makes air sharing with a panicky dive SO much easier.

Jon

 

[danvolker]

Thanks for all the good advice...My plan now is to buy the C4 Mustang, and have that in addition to the fins I currently use ( BW Specials by specialfins.com ) .. When a dive I am doing requires more of the specialty kicking, I can always use my BW Specials.....when it is just a high paced, "long cruise" style dive, I will use the Mustangs. I had never seen the BW Specials prior to getting them--Mike Damms at the Florida Freedive shop recomended them to me, and I did find them to be excellent freediving fins...and able to do any kick stroke I could desire.
But I do believe there could be faster carbon fiber fins, so now I will get the Mustangs...

Thanks again,
Dan V