Low erythrocyte count/low Hemoglobin levels

[Chefkoch]

I always had rather low erythrocyte numbers and hemoglobin levels, and my blood is being analized at least once a year.

Yesterday's test revealed a decrease in erythrocyte count, down to 4.1millions/miroliter (the recommended levels are 4.2-5.4)
Also my hemoglobin level is quite low: around 13g/dl (12-16 recommended).

At the same time i feel fit, and while diving i feel strong as ever. I train freediving once a week, since 2000, and i have no other training except cycling to work and quite a bit of walking and hiking.
I feel strong and confident, doing 45m CW, 5mins static, regular deep hangs of more than a min @30m, and 2mins @20m. No overweight or other health issues, splendid blood tests, blood pressure a.s.o. No blackouts or any problems during or after dives. Else I'm a rather acidic guy, having early contractions, that gradually increase in intensity and frequency. My training goes into the hypercapnic direction, no hypoxic tables.

I'm quite puzzled here...is the weekly training not even enough to keep "normal" erythrocyte and hb levels? Is there no erythropoiesis trigger at all?

I read in one of umberto's books that he had very low erythrocyte and hb levels while he performed the 80m CW and 150m NL record dives.

So...is it anything to be concerned of?
Is this a common effect among freedivers?
Is there anything I should change, be it training/diet/lifestyle?
How important/beneficial are high ery/hb levels after all (specially in regard of umberto's account)

 

[naiad]

What kind of diet do you have?

I was vegetarian for several years, and despite a varied diet and iron supplements, I had low Hb and erythrocyte count.

After I started eating meat again, the levels have improved to normal.

Lucia

 

[zebrafishle]

i would say as long as you feel comfortable with it, there is nothing else to change.and your hb is still normal. for eating you can try fish, meat or spinach or natural medicaments for pregnant women. because there is a lot of ferritin in it.

 

[efattah]

If you have low hemoglobin, iron deficiency is most likely the cause. This can be the case, even if you eat meat. I recommend the IronSorb supplement (iron protein succinylate).

When I did the 82m CW record in 2001, I was anemic with Hb = 13g/dl. After I started taking iron, it increased to over 16.5 g/dl during intense training. However, I had to take gigantic amounts of iron. It seemed almost impossible that this iron was being 'consumed' by hemoglobin production. Instead, I think much of the iron was 'vanishing' as it was incorporated into myoglobin in the muscles.

During one period of intense training, I was taking huge amounts of iron. I asked my doctor for a blood test including ferritin. My ferritin level was still near the lowest end of normal, DESPITE the huge amounts of iron supplements.

 

[Chefkoch]

Eric, that sounds weird indeed.... Could it be that intense apnea training is stressing the erythrocytes, possibly via reactive oxygen species? This could lead to a lower life span of the erys, and at some point the turnover rate might exceed the rate of production. This would gradually deplete you of erys. It's just weird, cause you and umberto both had very low levels in a period of intense training just prior to record attempts.

My diet has changed a year ago. I was a chilli-eating maniac, eating lots of meat and chilli every day! Weird thing I have to eat a LOT of stuff to keep my weight. That's how my mumma made me:t As soon as I start eating less, I loose weight.

At some point I developed a reaction against red meat (intense pain in the bowels, activated immune cells infiltrating the vessels of the intestines in tremendous numbers, leaving the rest of my body virtually immunodeficient).

Well, I switched to a diet low in chilli, and free of red meat (no pork, no beef, no deer, no rabbit....). The pain and immune reaction disappeared over night.

Now I get my proteins from seafood and ....birds. Else I eat lots of carbs (pasta, potatoes, rice, bread), vegetables and fruits.
I drink 2-3liters of water/day, and a little bit of alcohol (averaging to a beer/week maybe). Guess it's true that freediving turns us into wussies :head

OK, white meat being low on iron probably explains the recent drop in hb levels.

This leaves me with even more questions:
How can we supplement our diet in order to really make a difference in Hb?
What natural products (except red meat) are driving erythrocyte and hb levels?
Would it be worthwhile to try large amounts of antioxidants (e.g. vitaminC) in order to lower the oxidative stress in our circulatory system?

 

[Paul Kotik]

I don't recall the details, but I know that excessive iron intake is thought in some medical quarters to be quite harmful - perhaps to some flavors of people, if not to all. I see that many commercial multivitamin products make a point of emphasizing they're IRON FREE. The multi I take, a very pricey super-duper-everything (9 pills per day!) offering of the Life Extension Foundation, has no iron at all among the roughly 150 things in it. I think it has something to do with burdening the liver, but I'm not sure. Eric?

 

[Paul Kotik]

I 've looked back over my notes, and found that during a period of two years when my hemoglobin and red count were drastically reduced by chemotherapy, I didn't see any significant athletic performance decrement going from hemoglobin 16.5 to 13. The decline began as it fell below 13, and by the time it got to 8 my breath-hold max was less than 30 seconds! There are obviously confounding factors there, but it suggests that your numbers, Chefkoch, may well be nothing to worry about. You feel good, dive well - don't worry, be happy! I can think of plenty of people with big numbers who would be thrilled to dive as well as you do.

 

[xenopus]

I am chronically anemic (Thalassemia Minor). A few years ago, I was told that I also have mild sleep apnea. My hemoglobin has always been around 9. My max static is 4'32" (average is more like 3'30") and I am comfortable diving to 25 meters. I remember speaking with Paul about his artificially induced anemia. He had trouble even walking. Considering that I am experienced a level of anemia similar to Paul's, its apparent that my body has adapted to some degree. I am really curious to know in what way. Perhaps a myoglobin increase?

 

[fflupo]

in my understanding it is not only to eat the iron but make it available in your system trough vitamin C and ascorbic acid...

here is a link in german :-(

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