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Man Fatally bitten by Shark
- Thread starterWhopperhead
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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hi there
Deeperblue are on to this through wetpixel as apparently this info is not correct. Bahamas is not 50 miles off fort lauderdale...
Thanks for posting this Sara. Find this interesting, there is a business in Durban which runs dive trips with Tigers and Zambezi ( Bull) sharks, and I've heard a few remarks from individuals whom I wont name that strongly believe that it's not a case of if an attack / incident will occur, but when.
Hope this is not proof of that, but I dont believe that this sort of diving will ever be an exact science. Mankind has a natural and 'inbuilt' need to find a reason as to why an attack happended, and then to justify why it will not happended to them, but the fact of the matter is that these animals are unpredictable, and each is an individual. Like humans, sharks will act on instinct and any given factors at that moment.
If you want the experience the wonder of diving with Tigers and Bull sharks, it will probaby be incident free, but we need to accept that is a possibility that a shark may react and do something unpredictable, thats the nature of the animal, and in my opinion, thats part of it's attraction.
Condolences to the family and friends of this diver.
Jeff
Hope this is not proof of that, but I dont believe that this sort of diving will ever be an exact science. Mankind has a natural and 'inbuilt' need to find a reason as to why an attack happended, and then to justify why it will not happended to them, but the fact of the matter is that these animals are unpredictable, and each is an individual. Like humans, sharks will act on instinct and any given factors at that moment.
If you want the experience the wonder of diving with Tigers and Bull sharks, it will probaby be incident free, but we need to accept that is a possibility that a shark may react and do something unpredictable, thats the nature of the animal, and in my opinion, thats part of it's attraction.
Condolences to the family and friends of this diver.
Jeff
Seems to be some confusion on the details, but roughly, they were somewhere in Bahamian waters and were chumming.
You can add me to the list of those who "strongly believe" that what happened is absolutely inevitable. Do you really need "proof"? There is a reason that feeding bears is not allowed. It changes their behavior in ways that make it more likely that they will be bad news for some human, not to mention themselves. Why should sharks be any different? The behavior changes in Bahamian sharks can be astonishing, even a long time after feeding, and sure felt dangerous to me.
Connor
You can add me to the list of those who "strongly believe" that what happened is absolutely inevitable. Do you really need "proof"? There is a reason that feeding bears is not allowed. It changes their behavior in ways that make it more likely that they will be bad news for some human, not to mention themselves. Why should sharks be any different? The behavior changes in Bahamian sharks can be astonishing, even a long time after feeding, and sure felt dangerous to me.
Connor
The Caymans have banned feeding sharks when divers are in the water to observe them, as has the Hawaiian State legislature. This needs to happen worldwide.
Hawaiian shark tour operators have been taking people on dives successfully for years without chumming. Dumping bait is just the lazy way to run a tour.
This situation exactly parallels the developments that occurred around bear attacks, resulting in national parks all around the world banning people feeding bears. For years animal behavioral scientists like Stephen Herrero of the University of Calgary kept trying to tell park administrators and government agencies that no large predator should ever associate people and food. It took years, against all sorts of specious opposition before you finally started seeing "Do Not Feed the Bears" signs in parks and national forests.
It's the same for cougars, it's the same for tigers and every other large, dangerous animal- it just shouldn't happen- ever!
The news articles all make a big deal of the fact that Abernathy sponsored dives without cages, and they've been egged on in this by Neal Watson, who doesn't disclose the fact that he runs shark tourist dives using cages.
What the media don't "get" is the fact that the long term damage results from feeding the animals in the presence of humans. It's the behavioral operant associations the sharks make that increase the dangers for everybody. The issue of people being in cages or not just changes the probablity of an injury happening during that particular dive, however the animals are learning the wrong things whether a cage is present or not.
One other specious argument that has been bandied about by the chumming operators, is that "fishing boats dump chum in the water all the time, and it hasn't done any damage". The bear feeding crowd used to make the same arguments about garbage dumps.
What that argument ignores is the same old fact that the feeding dives associate live humans in the water with food. They're ignoring the real point.
And of course, since man is actually the most dangerous being on the planet, animals that commit attacks or become a menace, are often destroyed. It's bad for the environment- in the long term it turns out worse for the animals than for the people.
FWIW, bull sharks have the highest percentage of fatalities as a result of their attacks (20%) of any species. Tiger sharks come in a close second at 19%, followed by great whites at 15%. Other species have very small fatality rates, including hammerheads, with only 38 attacks recorded in centuries, and only 1 fatality from those (3%)
Anyhow, the upshot is that nobody should be feeding bull, tiger or white sharks in the water- they don't make mistakes very often, but when they do, their attacks tend to be devastating.
Just my 2 cents
Hawaiian shark tour operators have been taking people on dives successfully for years without chumming. Dumping bait is just the lazy way to run a tour.
This situation exactly parallels the developments that occurred around bear attacks, resulting in national parks all around the world banning people feeding bears. For years animal behavioral scientists like Stephen Herrero of the University of Calgary kept trying to tell park administrators and government agencies that no large predator should ever associate people and food. It took years, against all sorts of specious opposition before you finally started seeing "Do Not Feed the Bears" signs in parks and national forests.
It's the same for cougars, it's the same for tigers and every other large, dangerous animal- it just shouldn't happen- ever!
The news articles all make a big deal of the fact that Abernathy sponsored dives without cages, and they've been egged on in this by Neal Watson, who doesn't disclose the fact that he runs shark tourist dives using cages.
What the media don't "get" is the fact that the long term damage results from feeding the animals in the presence of humans. It's the behavioral operant associations the sharks make that increase the dangers for everybody. The issue of people being in cages or not just changes the probablity of an injury happening during that particular dive, however the animals are learning the wrong things whether a cage is present or not.
One other specious argument that has been bandied about by the chumming operators, is that "fishing boats dump chum in the water all the time, and it hasn't done any damage". The bear feeding crowd used to make the same arguments about garbage dumps.
What that argument ignores is the same old fact that the feeding dives associate live humans in the water with food. They're ignoring the real point.
And of course, since man is actually the most dangerous being on the planet, animals that commit attacks or become a menace, are often destroyed. It's bad for the environment- in the long term it turns out worse for the animals than for the people.
FWIW, bull sharks have the highest percentage of fatalities as a result of their attacks (20%) of any species. Tiger sharks come in a close second at 19%, followed by great whites at 15%. Other species have very small fatality rates, including hammerheads, with only 38 attacks recorded in centuries, and only 1 fatality from those (3%)
Anyhow, the upshot is that nobody should be feeding bull, tiger or white sharks in the water- they don't make mistakes very often, but when they do, their attacks tend to be devastating.
Just my 2 cents
I hope Abernathy gets sued and run out of business.
Someone might make a case that the customers know what they are getting into and assume the risk, but I doubt that many of them do understand. Here is an operator who tells them that its OK, and they believe him.
This Austrian attorney is described as an experienced diver, but in what conditions? Fresh water lakes, the Med?
Abernathy either understands the danger and doesn't care as long as he can make a buck, or he doesn't understand and is too stupid to be allowed to put people in danger.
Regarding the possibility that the cause of death was embolism- would the embolism have happened if the guy had not been bitten and then been assisted to the surface?
Someone might make a case that the customers know what they are getting into and assume the risk, but I doubt that many of them do understand. Here is an operator who tells them that its OK, and they believe him.
This Austrian attorney is described as an experienced diver, but in what conditions? Fresh water lakes, the Med?
Abernathy either understands the danger and doesn't care as long as he can make a buck, or he doesn't understand and is too stupid to be allowed to put people in danger.
Regarding the possibility that the cause of death was embolism- would the embolism have happened if the guy had not been bitten and then been assisted to the surface?
The fallout is that this is slowly creating a menace for spearfishers and other people doing watersports. It's kind of like the situation where bear attacks against hikers and campers who had nothing to do with bear feeding escalated in parks where it had been happening. Bears are often easily identifiable, even without tagging, and animals known to have been frequenting tourist feeding sites were routinely being implicated in such attacks, in numbers way out of proportion to their unacclimatized brethren.
In South Africa, the surfing community is up in arms as attacks, and the unusualness of attack situations, have escalated, eg.:
CDNN :: Shark Attacks - Surfing Association Blames South Africa's Shark Feeding Cage Diving Operators for Shark Attacks
Freedivers in areas where chummed shark diving occurs should be watching their backs too . . .
In South Africa, the surfing community is up in arms as attacks, and the unusualness of attack situations, have escalated, eg.:
CDNN :: Shark Attacks - Surfing Association Blames South Africa's Shark Feeding Cage Diving Operators for Shark Attacks
Freedivers in areas where chummed shark diving occurs should be watching their backs too . . .
Right with you Bill.
Sross, you said it a whole lot better than I could, but let me add some "on the ground" experience to back up your points.
In Long Island, Bahamas, the Stella Maris resort has been feeding sharks for divers for many years. As far as I know, with no problems. Not far from their feeding site, I, and at least two other spearos, at different times, had hair raising experiences with large Caribbean reef sharks, very aggressive and way out of character. In my case, and at least one other, no shot fish had been in the water recently and mine was the scariest experience (out of many) that I have ever had. I'm reasonably sure he would have bitten me if he'd not chowed down on the spear first.
In Walkers Cay, Bahamas, there used to be a very large shark feeding station, attracted hundreds of sharks. I ran into some of them about 3/4 mile from the station, not realizing at the time that the station existed. Four divers in the water, not spearing, up to 5 Caribbean reef sharks, coming close, but not aggressive. However, their behavior was so radically different in the way they moved and oriented to us, completely different from the hundred of sharks I have been around, that it totally spooked me and we got out of the water pronto, not at all my usual response to their presence.
Connor
Sross, you said it a whole lot better than I could, but let me add some "on the ground" experience to back up your points.
In Long Island, Bahamas, the Stella Maris resort has been feeding sharks for divers for many years. As far as I know, with no problems. Not far from their feeding site, I, and at least two other spearos, at different times, had hair raising experiences with large Caribbean reef sharks, very aggressive and way out of character. In my case, and at least one other, no shot fish had been in the water recently and mine was the scariest experience (out of many) that I have ever had. I'm reasonably sure he would have bitten me if he'd not chowed down on the spear first.
In Walkers Cay, Bahamas, there used to be a very large shark feeding station, attracted hundreds of sharks. I ran into some of them about 3/4 mile from the station, not realizing at the time that the station existed. Four divers in the water, not spearing, up to 5 Caribbean reef sharks, coming close, but not aggressive. However, their behavior was so radically different in the way they moved and oriented to us, completely different from the hundred of sharks I have been around, that it totally spooked me and we got out of the water pronto, not at all my usual response to their presence.
Connor
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I agree with connor and bill. I have dived with loads of sharks in natural conditions (i.e. no feeding) and they are generally docile. Only once or twice i saw signs of aggression from a grey reef shark and we just swam away from it.
I feel sorry for the diver that was attacked, however, putting yourself amongst a feeding frenzy of big sharks, is an accident waiting to happen. No human can stop a shark if he decides that the nearest diver looks more interesting than the chum bucket.
I remember that the Caymans banned shark feeding on the east end, and certain dive operators were put out. However, if you dive that area on the east end you can still see the sharks without having to feed them. The only reason that there are less sharks is due to fishing them and poor reef habitat, not because the feeding sessions have seized.
In the Deeperblue news we only report what we hear and see from agencies and newspapers, we dont report opinion. So if you guys read something remember its just a report and not necessarily what the editor really thinks.
Constant feeding of sharks in the same areas will condition them to understand that the approach of divers means food, certainly?
I feel sorry for the diver that was attacked, however, putting yourself amongst a feeding frenzy of big sharks, is an accident waiting to happen. No human can stop a shark if he decides that the nearest diver looks more interesting than the chum bucket.
I remember that the Caymans banned shark feeding on the east end, and certain dive operators were put out. However, if you dive that area on the east end you can still see the sharks without having to feed them. The only reason that there are less sharks is due to fishing them and poor reef habitat, not because the feeding sessions have seized.
In the Deeperblue news we only report what we hear and see from agencies and newspapers, we dont report opinion. So if you guys read something remember its just a report and not necessarily what the editor really thinks.
Constant feeding of sharks in the same areas will condition them to understand that the approach of divers means food, certainly?
Although maybe not as as evident and as intensive as direct chumming, I am afraid that also many spearfishers keeping their catch in water do contribute to the association of humans with food at sharks, and to a possible change of their behavior in long term. Although I do not watch spearfishing posts closely here on DB or elsewhere, I am passively exposed to some of them, and hear very frequently about cases when sharks steal or attempt to steal fish from spearfishers. And even if they do not, they are often present and interested anyway.
So of course, it is correct pointing the finger to the irresponsible shark-diving companies feeding sharks and asking for a ban, but in the same time spearfishers should make the maximum to avoid attracting sharks when hunting and get the killed fish out of the water (into the boat or into a sealed box on their float) as soon as possible. Otherwise they don't do any better than those irresponsibly chumming shark-diving companies who they criticize so vehemently.
So of course, it is correct pointing the finger to the irresponsible shark-diving companies feeding sharks and asking for a ban, but in the same time spearfishers should make the maximum to avoid attracting sharks when hunting and get the killed fish out of the water (into the boat or into a sealed box on their float) as soon as possible. Otherwise they don't do any better than those irresponsibly chumming shark-diving companies who they criticize so vehemently.
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interesting reading guys. there is a slight possibility that I might see blue sharks this coming season with a fisherman. last year they tagged and realeased 15 sharks and were debating about getting in with them.
I know blues are not a particularly agressive shark and while I have seen a few cases of attacks on some websites they seem to be unusual. My question is this, does the use of trailing a scent condition the animal and if so whats the recommended way of attracting them with out it? or is there a way?
I know blues are not a particularly agressive shark and while I have seen a few cases of attacks on some websites they seem to be unusual. My question is this, does the use of trailing a scent condition the animal and if so whats the recommended way of attracting them with out it? or is there a way?
Hi Trux,
Spearfishers should always follow best practices (including getting the catch out of the water quickly- the opposite of chumming) and IME they do.
I'm sure a few yahoos are out there, but I don't personally know anyone who does "dumb" things when spearing. The statictics seem to bear this out.
If you look at:
Statistics of Shark Attacks on Divers: Activity
overall proportions of attacks on people spearfishing are very low, but of course they are a miniority of divers.
Lots of information about shark attack statistics are available on that site BTW Statistics of Shark Attacks on Divers
The stats on proportion of freedivers attacked are disturbing.
Steve
Spearfishers should always follow best practices (including getting the catch out of the water quickly- the opposite of chumming) and IME they do.
I'm sure a few yahoos are out there, but I don't personally know anyone who does "dumb" things when spearing. The statictics seem to bear this out.
If you look at:
Statistics of Shark Attacks on Divers: Activity
overall proportions of attacks on people spearfishing are very low, but of course they are a miniority of divers.
Lots of information about shark attack statistics are available on that site BTW Statistics of Shark Attacks on Divers
The stats on proportion of freedivers attacked are disturbing.
Steve
this is very interesting Steve.
the data on this site classifies some of its deaths as "unprovoked" and also lists the activities of people who encountered sharks in major categories
of divers, swimmers/waders and surfers but then breaks down the diving into sub-categories and you'll note that 30% of the deaths are attributed to scuba, almost 46% to freediving and then only .04% to spearfishing which leads me to believe that there is actually some unintentional mis-reporting of spearfishing in the scuba and freediving categories.
the question here is can one say that the incident on the shear water was truly unprovoked? is chumming not a form of provocation?
i don't claim to have the final answer but i would gather there would be many POVs on this.
just a thought....
kp
the data on this site classifies some of its deaths as "unprovoked" and also lists the activities of people who encountered sharks in major categories
of divers, swimmers/waders and surfers but then breaks down the diving into sub-categories and you'll note that 30% of the deaths are attributed to scuba, almost 46% to freediving and then only .04% to spearfishing which leads me to believe that there is actually some unintentional mis-reporting of spearfishing in the scuba and freediving categories.
the question here is can one say that the incident on the shear water was truly unprovoked? is chumming not a form of provocation?
i don't claim to have the final answer but i would gather there would be many POVs on this.
just a thought....
kp
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I am not quite sure if really most spearfishers respect the rules properly. From the number of cases of sharks stealing the catch from spearfishers, that I continue to hear about, I'd tell that either many spearos don't do it, or that sharks notice the injured or killed fish anyway. In both cases, it does not do any good for the association of humans and food at sharks.
Also, as for the statistics - yes, I know that website, but unfortunately, they include only unprovoked attacks, so many attacks on spearos may be missing there. I am afraid it does not really reveal the truth. This quote comes from their website:
Also, as for the statistics - yes, I know that website, but unfortunately, they include only unprovoked attacks, so many attacks on spearos may be missing there. I am afraid it does not really reveal the truth. This quote comes from their website:
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... besides it, many attacks on spearfishers end without any injury and are not even reported. Spearfishers are armed, have better conditions, and more experience for defending themselves against an attacking shark. Besides it, the gun makes spearos appear bigger and creates more respect at sharks. Swimmers or freedivers usually have nothing in hand that they could use to push away the attacking shark, so unlike at spearos such attack usually ends with at least an injury and gets so reported in the stats.
If you use the search function here on DB, you will find numerous threads where spearfishers reported their physical contact with sharks. Such contact would usually end much worse if they were unsuspecting swimmers or freedivers who know only little about fish and shark behaviour, do not watch their surrounding with the eye of a hunter, and are not armed.
If you use the search function here on DB, you will find numerous threads where spearfishers reported their physical contact with sharks. Such contact would usually end much worse if they were unsuspecting swimmers or freedivers who know only little about fish and shark behaviour, do not watch their surrounding with the eye of a hunter, and are not armed.
Another good map is:
Boat , marine, yacht charts with navigation, route & weather - NavQuest.Com
I'm not real fond of Burgess and the ISAF, but that's another debate. As far as who is to blame for the man being in the water with feeding sharks, he is. He got in the water. If he did not know the risks. Does the operator have some liability? Probably. They most likely downplayed the danger to ease the guests.
As far as behavior of the sharks away from the feeding, I don't see sharks enough to know. I don't see them yearly, let alone daily.
Just know what is safe and what isn't. Don't fish in unclear water with shrimp in your pocket. Don't keep fish on you while spearing. Your all adults, you've read it before, no reason to repeat it all.
Boat , marine, yacht charts with navigation, route & weather - NavQuest.Com
I'm not real fond of Burgess and the ISAF, but that's another debate. As far as who is to blame for the man being in the water with feeding sharks, he is. He got in the water. If he did not know the risks. Does the operator have some liability? Probably. They most likely downplayed the danger to ease the guests.
As far as behavior of the sharks away from the feeding, I don't see sharks enough to know. I don't see them yearly, let alone daily.
Just know what is safe and what isn't. Don't fish in unclear water with shrimp in your pocket. Don't keep fish on you while spearing. Your all adults, you've read it before, no reason to repeat it all.
To me this is in the same class as Whale harassment. Its one thing to raise awareness and overcome irrational fear - another to harass, domesticate and otherwise F*^$# around with animals in their own environment. ***** i don't even like people to come over without calling first - in fact I don't even like answering the F(*&ing phone let alone having people flying around over my house in helicopters dropping food on me.
Feargus I'm happy to be a NON-expert but I think the only thing who might attract them is the perspective of an easy meal, which would make them more aggressive in any case, so be careful my Irish friend.
Hopefully the experts will suggest you some bite-free attraction means then...