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Matrix Fins Review

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Bill

It is good know about the problem with the omer bat, you've got me thinking about getting a Matrix. What Bat model your friend had the problem with 20,30 or 40.

Icarus Pacific
what is your impression about the Bat 30 are they stiffer then Matrix 20 ? How are they for surface swiming ?
 
If he had a problem with his BAT's, he's one of a very few I've heard of, but then I've got gear from 30 years ago that still is the benchmark, and new wonderstuff that lasted me two minutes. Mark Labocetta at Technosport is my guy and he backs up everything. I have to think if your friend contacted him, he'd be set.

My BAT's are 4-1/2 years old now and with the rock entries and exits and the very bad habit I have of pushing off the bottom, my BAT's have shown zero damage, save for the obligatory scuff marks. I can't speak about the Picasso foot pockets as they don't fit my feet, but I had the Matrix 2's with the Omer pockets and I was having to adjust my kick too much for my liking. A soft blade like the 2, or a 20 of any maker responds best to a long kick and with the kelp and all up here, often there's not a lot of room. And even when I brought them over to the Keys and down So to Bill-ville, I was over-kicking them. I'm not svelte at 6-3, 210 but I have a pretty well fed set of hams and I can swing a pair of 40's if I have to and don't care about the surface slap, unless it's WSB time. But with the time spent at the surface being more than under, the 30 was the best flex for me, and like I said, they have shown zero wear and I'm not easy on the gear.

Not to confuse the issue, but if you really want a really good fin and you have a tax refund coming, look at the Specialfins Hybrids. And I agree with your earlier post Bill, if I have the $600 to spare, I'm going to someplace with visibility instead of picking up the latest set of wonderfins.
 
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I'll answer several at once here.

I got my Matrix in June, 2004, so have had two summers in them. In 2005 I had 52 days of diving, and probably something close to that on 04. Add the few dives so far this year, and I must have over 100 days in them.

I think my friend has the the BAT 30s, but I'll have to check with him.

Mark did take care of him, but he was still finless while he waited for the mail for blades, and then again for the foot pocket, and of course the day it happened was a loss. And BTW, just a couple of weeks ago another friend had his Omer foot pocket split up the back as he put it on, so now I've seen two. Maybe its just coincidence though.
 
Are these guys lubing their footpockets? I was having problems with my Esclapez pockets cracking until I shot a couple doses of my suit lube into them. With my 13's and a 3-5 mil sock, even the Omer 46-48's are a squeeze.

When I'm down your way, I take a clump of kelp and toss it in a bucket of water and that stew becomes the best suit/fin lube and anti fog going.
 
Bill and Sven,

Keep your ears open for anyone who wants a new pair of Matrix #3 blades and send them my way if you don't mind.

Thanks,

Jim

P.S. Do you guys know Stathis Kostopoulos from out your way?

 
I am a relatively weak diver going down on a pair of #2's in NorCal, I absolutely love them. Question is wether or not anyone has tried the new "Edge" blades from 20 fathoms that have the heel angle built in. Most of my diving is with plenty of surface swimming, I'd like to try anything that makes that easier!

arriflex
 
"When I'm down your way, I take a clump of kelp and toss it in a bucket of water and that stew becomes the best suit/fin lube and anti fog going."

Hey Sven, you forgot to tell him to check the kelp for animals (or parts) that you really don't want to share a wet suit with.

Aloha
Bill
 
Dammit Bill! You just gave up my secret for my PB with spider crabs! rofl

Where/how/when you been stranger?
 

Bill, remember to ask your friend and maybe add to the board what brand of fins he would get if he ever wanted to get another pair of fins. From my recollection he told me this was the happiest he had ever found himself with a pair of freediving fins despite the problem with the BAT 25.

In any event Omer offers a two year unconditional guarantee on the BAT fins and 3 year on the ICE fins and I would encourage customers to weigh that too since fiberglass is strong but not indestructable. Another point to consider is we probably have 10 times the amount of glass fins out on the market than other companies so there are likely to be more casualties here and there but I bet our batting average is still pretty darn good. The holes in the BAT blades were the screws go were punched through and that seemed to be the concern as a cause of stress which is why they've since been drilling them from the last year instead. In any event at -1% return rate we're very satsfied with the fins none the less.

I'm always amazed reading your second hand reports of Omer products without ever having tried a single Omer product for as long as I've seen you posting on boards. Nothing like second hand reports as constructive criticism of products to reccomend to others....

Mark

ps- The reels (the first pelagic you bought) are US made and the early one you bought nearly 8 years ago was improved ten fold since it was the base model for the modern reels. Therefore it wouldn't apply as an Omer product.
 
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Reactions: Jon
I guess the Matrix are the same as the Waterway Captain Nemo's ??

I have a pair of Nemo's #2 stiffness and have used them for about a year I think. THey work well for me and previously I owned a pair of Sporasub Dessault fins. These cracked in winter so I bought the WW Nemo's. Three of my mates Spora's cracked in the same place in winter too so I think that there is a design fault with these fins.

Anyway....

I like the WW Nemos but was recently thinking about new fins... always the way eh !

Has anyone tried the Matrix/WW Nemos and also these : Omer Ice and Omer Rekord 3.

Can anyone who has tried all three compare them ?

I know that they are all different materials and so on and perhaps some might think it inappropriate to compare them but I am very curious to hear of any comparision.

Thanks

Ed
 
I broke a pair of Sporasub's, twice, but they were the Pure Carbon and I wouldn't buy those again- ever. I, now, have a few pair of the C4 carbon fiber fins in Omer, and Sporasub, pockets and love them- plus, Mark has a great warranty on the fins if anything ever did happen to them. I've used them for spearing, ice diving, wreck diving and have never had any breakage problems with them. I simply love my 80's and have never found a bi-fin that I like better. At first I was a bit nervous using them after my bad experiences with the Pure's but the C4's are in a whole other catagory when it comes to durability.

I have used the BAT 30's and didn't like them, but I am only 5'10"/ 180 so may not have the legs that Sven does to push them around. I've never tried the 25's and maybe they would be better- but I still like more of an angle to my fin blades than the BAT fins provided.

Haven't tried the Matrix, but I have used the Specialfin's Classics- fiberglass fin with no blade angle which is very similar to the Matrix. I hated those fins because of the lack of blade angle, but loved the S.F. Pro's- which are the same fin WITH blade angle. For going up and down a line it probably doesn't matter too much about blade angle, but for surface swimming I have found it to make a huge difference.

The Ice fins look VERY cool but I think if I was going to try and new bi-fins I would save my pennies to get a pair of those C4 Mustangs.:inlove

I will back Bill up on the comfort of the Picasso footpockets. I have an old pair of Picasso Black Teams that saw a lot of use before I moved up to carbon. They were a nice fin with one small issue that bugged the crap out of me- they change stiffness depending upon the water temperature. They were a nice soft fin in the tropics but turned into a rock solid board when I ice dove with them- or just dove below the thermocline in the Great Lakes with them. The foot pocket on them is much more solid than on the old pair of Esclapez Black fins that I had. I have never thought of moving them onto another pair of blades since I have enough Omer and Sporasub pockets laying around that I find even more comfortable.

Jon
 
Mark,

I'm sorry you take it so personally that I haven't used your products. As I have said before in a private exchange, I would probably have tried the BAT fins if they had been available, if for no other reason than that the blades are angled down while the Matrix are straight, but the Matrix were there before the BAT.

As far as your other products go, I just don't happen to use Euro guns, and that is what you sell. Its nothing personal.

As far as my reports being second hand goes- OK, it wasn't my fin that split, but the guy was right there on my boat. I didn't just hear about it on the grapevine, I saw it personally. Same with the other guy who had his foot pocket split up the back. You did provide exceptional warranty service, and it was noted and appreciated.

Again, I'm sorry that you seem to think I'm out to get you, because I'm not. But if all of us on public forums stay mum about our impressions and experiences with equipment, then much of the value is lost.

Since you mentioned the reel- my only problem with the Pelagic was particular to me. I use stainless machine screws into stainless threaded inserts in the gun, and all that stainless caused the aluminum to erode pretty fast. I now have the reel mounted with aluminum wood screws to a Riffe #2 that I keep meaning to use for halibut, but if it were not for the electrolysis problem, it would still be on one of my larger guns. But I don't know how many times on spearboard I've recommended your reels with that custom horizontal mount that Daryl Wong does with them on his guns. Several guys I know have bought that setup after I mentioned it. Maybe you don't think that recommendation counts because the reel is on a competitors gun even though its still a reel sale for you, but you seem to ignore those recommendations when you imply that I'm out to get you. You are getting lots of positive press on this and other forums and in this thread. Why got so excited over me?

I know it must be tough to be in business and see competition, but don't be like Jay Riffe and think no one else has the right to be in the business. I have no agenda to get you.
 
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PS to Mark: Here is a photo of my friend who had the blades split. Notice the reel and the wet suit- Omer.

I must have posted that photo at least a hundred times on Spearboard when people are asking about a beginner gun. I recommend that 50" hybrid and say that while it was his first gun and good for calicos, he also was shooting yellowtail like this within a couple of months. I also mention that the Omer 50 reel shown is a great match for the gun.

I suppose my mention of the reel is meaningless to you since I didn't recommend your gun too. If so, I'm sorry, but I just wanted to point out that I do recommend your stuff and even show photos of it. I'll continue to do so, even though you are attacking me for mentioning what I saw with my own eyes.
 

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Bill,


I seldom get in to these sort of spats but for the record:
  1. Objective? Y or N
  2. Negative
  3. My other passion aside from freediving is riding mountain bikes. As much as I'd like to claim that in my 15 years of experience based on my riding preferences my Yeti is the best riding bike on the market I can't. I haven't rode them all. In fact there's a good chance other bikes are better than mine. Therefore when I'd like to post that my bike is better than another I refrain if I haven't personally ridden it, and even riding it once around the block wouldn't make it a good test.
  4. Jon's post after yours in my mind is considered objective - BTW Jon, I've tried the Mustangs in a pool but I can't tell you how I honestly feel about them as I don't have a good feel for the fin and its mechanical properties in the water yet.
I'm sorry you take it so personally that I haven't used your products.
Click to expand...
rofl Every once in a while you give me a good laugh. Bill don't flatter yourself.

Fins are like shoes, I would encourage anyone looking to buy fins to either try a pair on because fit, feel and comfort are crucial or ask those who have used the fin you are looking into. The direction freediving fins are going into now is toward blades that are more supple responsive easier to kick. Divers who dive past 80ft and warrant a stiff blade are few and far between these days while comfort and longevity of the fin's life are in first order.

After the privilege of working with two great fin brands for several years, Omer and C4, and using all the models from each house extensively, I can tell you in a nutshell that stiffer blades wear your ankles and legs out quicker and produce less energy for what you put into them, the were also more prone to cracking (observed this in both older C4 and Omer mods) because the blade and its material are working in a less natural way and most importantly stressed more. Even C4's Apnea world record breaking models such as the 80 and the new Mustangs, as well as the Flap's and Falcons have all been toned down to be more flexible. People are realizing that just because it feels like the fin is harder to thrust it does not necessarily mean it gives them the best return for their energy. Consider that along with the fact that the large majority of freedivers/spearos spend more time kicking on the surface than anything else and it makes more sense.

Today, there are only two reasons I can think of to get stiff blades (stiffness of 30+). You weigh more than 200lbs and or dive regularly past 60ft from a boat or you fishe and freedive at 100ft/30+meters regularly and you need to get off the bottom where you are most negative at those depths.

Mark
 
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as for fins....
the best thing I ever did was switch to c-4's. At first they seemed way soft compared to anything Ive used before but as I dove I noticed I was going deeper and diving noticably easier than ever before with a seemingly softer fin. As a matter of fact EVERY dive trip Ive ever been on has ended with me having hamstring cramps by the end of the day but I have yet to have a single cramp on the carbon fins and Im definately inthe worst shape of my life right now!

I did have a problem with one blade but it was promptly handled by Mark. Sometimes stuff breaks and it customer service that counts. Mark and his dad have always gone above and beyond in this department.

Mark, heres what the c4's drug up this week....
 

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...and your not the only mountain biker here either....check out my new to me - post katrina ride. Lost my new Cake 2DLX in the storm and a bunch of guys and companies got together and pieced me up a sweet rig. Its a Kestrel carbon fiber frame that was produced in the early 2000's but cut because of the cost. Good frame with a very unique suspension design...rides like SPV before they invented SVP. 5.5" of travel at both ends. Not the latest greatest but I have found it to be a very fun bike.


Well......I'll have to get my brother to resize them tonight
 
I'm with Mark on the softer fin thing. The reason I ended up with so many pairs of fins was because I started out with a pair of 40's to start with- and loved how fast they shot me up from the wrecks I dive on. I "thought" that I wanted something that stiff to get me up from depth quick, but I have since had much easier dives, from greater depths, with my 30's. Eventually, after selling off some tech diving gear, I picked up the 80's. These may be too long for shallow water stuff, but no fin has been easier to dive deep with since it hardly puts any strain on my legs at all. It would be nice to try out some 25's, or even 15's, to see what they are like on a full day spearing outing. I've worn the 40's for 6 hours straight, but it is certainly more comfortable in my 30's.

Mark, if you want to give those Mustangs a bit of use we sure could use them up at this Summer's Freedive-A-Palooza. It's the second weekend in July if your interested.

Rig, when I used to work in a bike shop, back in college, one of my buddies got a year of school paid for when our demo Kestral mountain bike split apart on him and he broke his arm.:crutch I'm pretty sure they've gotten all the bugs workd out in the past 15 years though.

I'm sad to say that my mountain bike has since been refitted with a straight, Surley, fork and slick tires so that I can pull the kids around in the Burly trailer. One day it will get a chance to see some dirt again. My road bike also see precious little use these days as the kids come with anytime I get a chance to ride.

Jon
 
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  1. OK, here is one definition of objective.

    "undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena; "an objective appraisal"; "objective evidence"

    I reported what I observed. I saw BAT fins break. My Matrix have not broken, and I even reported a very close approximation of the number of days I been diving in them. I reported that the Picasso foot pocket felt better to me than the Sporasub pocket. I did not venture an opinion on how much better the Matrix might perform compared to the BAT because I have never worn one. I didn't say that the Matrix was better than your other fins because I've never used them either.

    Your mountain bike analogy is irrelevant because I didn't say which fin was the best. I only reported what I felt and saw myself regarding fins I've worn and seen. For all I know the C4 would far outperform my Matrix, but I didn't venture an opinion on that subject because I have not even laid eyes on a C4, much less worn one. I'd like to try every fin out there, but I'm afraid I can't afford it, so I'm limited to reporting what I have observed myself.

    BTW, I started by saying that I got the Matrix because my black Esclapez were too soft to get me off the bottom. I haven't seen anyone representing Esclapez here crying that I don't give his products a fair shake.
 
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uh...

Let's take a step back, folks and take a breath. No one has called anyone out yet and I'd really like to keep it that way.

On the original topic, I did a write up where I had both the Matrix and the BAT's in the water the same day and while I did enjoy the Matrix blades, the BAT's just "felt" better. They delivered more "oomph" off the bottom and doing the subtle twitches to position myself in the water seemed to go without thought. I summed it up by recommending the Matrix's for the water down South where you get clear of the kelp and swing 'em. For up here, there often times isn't the room to do the full leg kick until you get out into the open, which means you ain't in the abalone or the fish.

I agree that the number of fins made by Omer is large and as I said earlier, I'm aware of only a very few that have had problems with them and to be brutally honest, one of those guys had no business being in them. At 1% problem, it's pretty impressive for a fin, but it sucks for succesful plane landings and heart transplants.

I've been right next to guys that have had their gear break on them and have been on that side of the fence as well with one of my Wong hybrids. But as with Mark/Technosport, Daryl stood right up and made it right. Yeah the gun was out of comission for the rest of the trip, but that's why I pack a second and that goes for fins as well. Masks, weight belts and knives too. It doesn't make the fact that the blade took a hike any easier, but the minor annoyance of having to dig into the gear bag is a small price to pay to save a trip.

Hey Mike- what is it with you and natural disasters? First Katrina and lately twisters in TN? Andy a Dad yet?
 
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