Max dynamics without goggles

[ericvrp]

* disclaimer: I could't find a thread about this but please point me to it if I missed it

With the success of some top performers during the last world championship we will start seeing copycats - I might be one of them.

I was wondering how many people are doing their big dynamic dives without goggles? Did you notice an improvement and how long did it take to get used to it and do your old distances?

Any people that tried for a couple of months and failed miserably?

 

[mattbigblue]

I was considering it as a "next level" together with Mikko's "late entry" before OT.

I will give it a go to "no googles" in next couple of months. Will see how it goes and let You know

 

[MikkoP]

I have done most of my max dynamics and dnfs without goggles for some time now. I see two clear benefits: easier surface protocol and a bit stronger diving reflex. I think it doesn't take that long to get used to it, and once you do, diving without goggles can feel even more comfortable than with goggles.

 

[ericvrp]

Thanks.

How often do you open your eyes to check if you are still swimming at the right height and in the right direction? Or you keep them open just the minimal possible amount all the time?

In a pool with a flat floor keeping the correct distance from the floor doesn't seem too hard but would you yourself also do competition max dives when there is a deep part on one side of the pool (1.40 - 4.00 meter depth for instance)?

- Eric

 

[watts]

I switched to no goggles or mask back in 08 and have had great results without them. HR showed a significant drop within the first 50 compared to mask.
The biggest HR reduction was when i removed the noseclip and showed full commitment to a set distance like treating it like a cwt dive.
When i use a mask or goggles now though i feel a disconnection with the water. Depth dives also seem harder with facial equipment.
I found it hard to make the change to no facial equipment for a while because i was chopping and changing for a while but when i committed to it it was quick.
I am now trying to get my head around cold water dives which shows lots of potential.

 

[MikkoP]

Eric, I keep my eyes mostly open during dynamics. I do long dives also in pools that go from 1 meter at one end to 4 meters at another end. It doesn't really differ that much from diving with goggles. I don't think there is really anything you need to see during max dynamics that you can see with goggles but can't see without.

 

[J Campbell]

The chlorine ruins my eyes. Gotta have a mask or else only open my eyes momentarily, which is a distraction.

 

[Simos]

I switched to no goggles or mask back in 08 and have had great results without them. HR showed a significant drop within the first 50 compared to mask.
The biggest HR reduction was when i removed the noseclip and showed full commitment to a set distance like treating it like a cwt dive.
When i use a mask or goggles now though i feel a disconnection with the water. Depth dives also seem harder with facial equipment.
I found it hard to make the change to no facial equipment for a while because i was chopping and changing for a while but when i committed to it it was quick.
I am now trying to get my head around cold water dives which shows lots of potential.

Did you have any trouble with contractions without a noseclip?

 

[watts]

Simos I did in the beginning. I learnt a swimming technique where you seal your top lip to your nose with your tongue. After a while you get used to water entering anyway.
Interesting to me was once I showed full commitment to a distance the contractions stopped. Our perhaps I just didn't notice them any more.

 

[mattbigblue]

Interesting topic that Watts brought out.

I've tried swimming few times after Belgrad without googles and mostly I felt strange, despite I was still able to achieve some good DNF's, even a PB

Yesterday I had another swim and for the first time I felt like never before. I start understand what people say, that dive response is stronger and it feels good. I think by removing googles we gain few meters and we are more resistant to BO.

However I still can't get used to it while doing DYN, different water flow than during dnf's makes sometimes unexpected contractions, I guess more practice required.

As for no nose-clip, it force You to block contractions with tongue before they reach Your mouth, with total relaxation it somehow makes contractions goes away after a while. Because of that I've noticed much lower pulse compared to letting the air into a mouth and figthing contractions with nose-clip. Anyway, it's possible to do while static for me, but I can't imagine during dynamic

 

[watts]

Matt I found the more water flowing over the face dramatically increases DR compared to just static water.
To me the feeling is just so different with no face stuff.
A lot more connection with the water.
How low do you think your HR would go on a Max dynamic if you couldn't bail early like in a tunnel?

 

[mattbigblue]

Matt I found the more water flowing over the face dramatically increases DR compared to just static water.
To me the feeling is just so different with no face stuff.
A lot more connection with the water.
How low do you think your HR would go on a Max dynamic if you couldn't bail early like in a tunnel?

True, that's why on the beginning with that method someone could feel it more demanding and uncomfortable. Yes I felt that connection for the first time

I don't want to speculate about HR during max dynamic, what I can tell is that during dry statitcs on my bed with pulse oximeter, after 7-8min when I manage to stay in full control instead of fighting contractions my monitor shows HR~33 or less (I don't look at it all the time, just 1-2x per whole attempt)

Now on a speculation part of this note, with same ammount of relaxation in a water it should reduce even more. Maybe HR 2x is possible during max swim? Who knows, would love to have a device that can measure it....

 

[Simos]

Simos I did in the beginning. I learnt a swimming technique where you seal your top lip to your nose with your tongue. After a while you get used to water entering anyway.
Interesting to me was once I showed full commitment to a distance the contractions stopped. Our perhaps I just didn't notice them any more.

Interesting thanks. I can totally see both points ie no facial equipment and commitment. Even simple swim throughs like containers etc that I couldn't bail out of were some of my most comfortable dives and I also did find out that mentally committing to a target made things more comfortable on average and I think I felt a DR sooner - the only caveat is that if I over-committed it resulted to me bailing out really early (bear in mind I never did big distances but still).

I recently started using the same mental approach to my climbing and I ended up climbing harder than before and finishing routes that I would bail out of previously - in fact I started using it on even simple things like pushups, chin ups etc. Instead of doing 'as many as I can' I just commit to an ambitious but not unrealistic target.

I think I just need to work on my mental resolve. will try the same 'commitment' approach with an oxymeter (dry) and see if my HR drops lower than a 'normal' hold. (in fact I tried it but I bailed out as I kept on watching the oxymeter and my HR was not dropping enough...)

 

[maui400]

@Mat:
You could try the Suunto Memory Belt. I've used it to record a few wet statics so far. It's really interesting to see the HR-curve afterwards.

 

[Goran Colak]

First thing first, I just can not see any reason to use googles in any of pool disciplines, you just make things harder for yourself. Surface protocol, equipment failure, lower DR.. one thing more to forgot at the pool

Regarding HR, my own has never dropped below 40ish in dynamics or 35 in static, and I never saw any of my team mates below that... and Im talking in the water measurements. On dry its that X2.

 

[J Campbell]

You guys without googles - doesn't the chlorine mess up your eyes? When I swim without goggles my eyes are blurry and bloodshot for a couple of hours after. Can't be good!

 

[mattbigblue]

First thing first, I just can not see any reason to use googles in any of pool disciplines, you just make things harder for yourself. Surface protocol, equipment failure, lower DR.. one thing more to forgot at the pool

Regarding HR, my own has never dropped below 40ish in dynamics or 35 in static, and I never saw any of my team mates below that... and Im talking in the water measurements. On dry its that X2.

You have never get lower then 70 HB during dry static?

p.s. Have You ever tried doing sub-max or max swim without nose-clip too?

#maui400
It's not like there are no devices to measuer it, it's me who is not willing to spent money on them

 

[Goran Colak]

Something like that Mat, HR around 60 beats on dry static... I can not enter dive mode or any serious relaxation doing dry apneas of any kind.

 

[maui400]

#maui400
It's not like there are no devices to measuer it, it's me who is not willing to spent money on them

I see . I once paid 30€ for it on ebay, but it seems a lot ore now ...

 

[MikkoP]

You guys without googles - doesn't the chlorine mess up your eyes? When I swim without goggles my eyes are blurry and bloodshot for a couple of hours after. Can't be good!

I haven't had that in many years. I think they have moved to using ozone for cleaning the water here, so there is much less chlorine in the pools. If you train in a pool that has lots of chlorine, you might have problems with your eyes. In that case I would be more worried about your lungs though.