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Medium denstiy Heiwa???

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
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I'm just about to order a new summer time wetsuit (3mm) and am thinking about a medium density suit this time.

My last, summer, suit was a low density 3mm Heiwa with opencell/smoothskin. It was simply my favorite suit of all times- and I've owned a LOT of suits in the last 25 years! Of course, it was very fragile and started to fall apart after 2 seasons so I am looking for something a bit stronger this time around.

So far it looks like a nylon lined/ smoothskin suit that is fully reversible- I have a 5mm suit like this and it works great. I wear the nylon side in for warmer water and smoothskin in when it get cold. The arms will be cut for overhead postioning so that should help with stiffenss.

My question is how much am I loosing, flexibility wise, in jumping up to the medium density compared to the low? Is it really that much warmer? Also, is it any stronger than low density- so I could go opencell/ smoothskin again but have a better suit life?

Thanks for any input,

Jon
 
Hi Jon - I have a 3mm medium density elios with opencell inner and nylon outer (and.. erm.. orange stitching .. seemed a good idea at the time :)). I have been using it over here for one season.
Not allthe time - just when the water gets into the 13C to 18C range and then for specific kinds of diving (deeper spearfishing spots - not that deep really - down to 12m. And also for cliff spots - saves on lugging lead around).

I find it fine for a couple of hours for this usage at those temps in the sea. But once the temp goes below 13C or so I slap on the 5mm - also depends on air temp sunshine etc (how cold you feel that day etc)

I cannot compare it to low density so I am not sure how useful that is.

The nylon onthe outer is fine and the suit is pretty tough (compared to a 5mm same spec suit but with kanoko outer).

Cheers
Ed
 
I can't really compare directly - I have a 3mm summer suit I use down to 12c or so - it's actually and 'off-the shelf' elios with thermic plush inside/nylon out and a separate hood. It is extremely flexible and tough but I don't know what sort of neoprene is in it. I'm guessing at 3mm flex is not going to be much of an issue though. For my next summer suit I'll go with open cell in though - a bit warmer. I've got a feeling this ones going to last quite awhile though!

Jon, it sounds like smoothskin is pretty warm - are you using that suit in winter? Do you need lube to into it?
 
I've now got a couple of winter suits. My older suit, which is still holding up, is a 6mm opencell/smoothskin. It is super warm but I need to lube it to slip it on. Sinc ethereis no nylon on the outside I don't get effected by cold wind blowing on me after the dive- nylon suits hold water and when the wind blows it causes a type of evaporative cooling effect.

My second, new, suit, is 5mm nylon /smoothskin reversible. I wear the nylon in and need no lube to slip it on. It stays fairly warm, I've dove it down to
36F and been good for an hour. Last time out I turned it inside-out and lubed it to slide it on. this was warmer since there is no water flow.

My last 3mm I was able to wear down into the 50's with a vest- opencell makes a difference. It was also very flexible and the easiest suit to breath in out of any I've owned. It's just too bad it fell apart.:head Next suit I'm looking at lining the inside to give it strength, plus no lube to put it on. Outside is smooth to glide through the water better. I'm really just wondering about the difference between the two densities of rubber.

Jon
 
Here's another option to baffle you: how about sandwich? smoothskin out, nylon middle, open cell inside. :)
I'm not recommending or anything, just remember elios used to have that kind of neopren.
 
I have a 3mm reversible low density with superstretch nylon on one side and titanium lining on the other. Also have a 3mm medium density with ordinary nylon outside and copper coat inside.
There was some de-lamination with the superstretch (no big deal if it's outside) but the medium suit is far more rugged. The metal linings let you put on the suit without lube, but a plastic bag makes it far easier.
The difference in warmth is less between the suits than the difference between nylon in or out. Flexibility in diving depends more on fit and cut than on material. Both are a little tight in the chest, but lube down the neck fixed that. Maybe takes 10% more packs with the medium rubber.
Either suit is comfortable as long as the temp is over 25C.
Aloha
Bill
 
Michael,

Elios emailed me back about the sandwich stuff and said that they no longer carry it because of so many problems. I guess it absorbes water in the middle layer and gets VERY heavy- and then it starts to delaminate.

Still trying to make up my mind on suits- now starting to second guess the smoothskin outer and just go super-elasitc since it will hold up better over time.:confused:

Jon
 
25C! <insane laughter>

Jon - I've got the black shadow suit with superstretch out - 'new black' inside - which is really silver colored open cell - I was going to try 'Thermic Pile' in and Kanoko out - but I haven't heard of anybody who's tried the Thermic Pile (not to be confused with Thermic Plush!!). Anyway I can attest to the superstretch out being very sturdy. As for delamination - I have a bit of that on some spot somewhere - though I've forgotten where and have since quit being that anal about the suit. Anyway, my 5mil suit is very warm and very comfortable and very sturdy. They nylon did pill up a bit when it got caught in the male velcro on my omer vest - so I just make sure the weight pockets on the vest are well closed - but no structural damage. It has survived many brushes with the well anchored zebra muscles on the breakwall I dive around alot.

Next suit will probably be some sort of camo - and I'll have to make the lining decision all over again.
 
I've had plush lined, scuba, suits before and wouldn't go back to that for anything. Opencell is just too warm.:inlove

I also have a couple of suits with the spray on coatings to make the opencell go on easier- one in a gold coating and another in a silver coating. I find that the coatings will wear off eventually and cost more up front. I have no problem lubing up a suit to stay warm in. so I've decided to just go opencell from the start and spend my money on something else- like a custom cut.

I also have some nylon outer wetsuits that are 6-7 years old and still look pretty good. They have farmer john pants and aren't custom cut so I don't use them much anymore, but are great to loan out to others who want to go diving with me.:)

My last 3mm opencell/smoothskin was simple the nicest suit I've ever owned, but it fell apart too fast. Just trying to replicate it in somthing a bit more durable. Was hoping for a smooth outer skin to make the monofin go a little faster through the water, but maybe that doesn't really matter as much as longevity?

Jon
 
Elios has a lining for their 5 mil suits they say is pretty good - I think it's a cut above the usual plush - but in my limited experience I have to agree with you.
 
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