Mouth fill question.

[xbuster]

Hi to all,

I'm using Frenzel to equalize and have reached the depth where I can't equalize anymore. I've read the mouth fill technique document and have tried to use it both in depth and on empty lungs. In both cases I've the same problem. I've the air in my mouth (not loosing the mouth fill) but can't use it to equalize!

What might be the reason and how can I overcome the problem?

 

[cdavis]

You need to get with an expert on teaching mouthfil.

What is probably happening is that you can fill you cheeks with air, but the tongue or soft palete is blocking that air from getting to the etube valves. If you can fill your cheeks and still breath through your nose, it's the tongue. I have same issue and have not been able to beat it.

 

[Kray]

Having air in mouth but cannot equalize only means you don't frenzel. What's the failing depth ? Frenzel should work more than 50m for most size lung. Mouthfill/reverse pack aren't needed shallower than that. It's the soft palate / glottis decoupling. I found putting air balloon to the mouth, close glottis, letting air out from the nose help learning the correct soft palate position.

 

[xbuster]

I definitely do Frenzel - T-Lock. The failing depth is around 40 meters. It fills like a block.

 

[Kray]

Hmm.. I have two friends failing around 45 saying they have mouth full of air but can't use it. Well maybe you guys are doing somewhat frenzel. Not relax, soft palate not so right, or air isn't push towards the middle of mouth where the soft palate is or tongue not stay at the bottom of mouth creating vacuum in the throat and whatnot. Maybe you can't frenzel when glottis closes. Too much info right? Forget it, if soft palate is right, all need to do is just stay relax and it should clear. For good frenzel, the only time it fails is when there's absolutely no air in mouth. I spent 3 days in a 4m pool doing reverse pack and mouthfill to learn it. It's waste of time try learning on full lung. Keep practicing exhale dive or negative if depth is unavailable. And never push to equalize.

 

[xbuster]

You're right. Too much variables. I've to narrow it down... Will keep practicing and try to figure it out.

 

[WhiteMamba]

You need to get with an expert on teaching mouthfil.

What is probably happening is that you can fill you cheeks with air, but the tongue or soft palete is blocking that air from getting to the etube valves. If you can fill your cheeks and still breath through your nose, it's the tongue. I have same issue and have not been able to beat it.

I also think that you should get help from an expert.

 

[Porky Pig]

As others have said, you are probably having this problem because you can't open your soft palate. A couple of dry exercises:

-Try to get to the stage where you can make your ears pop on dry land using the mouthfill technique. You can check that you are not using your abdominal muscles to push by feeling under your ribcage while you do it.

- Place the opening of a full balloon in your mouth. Allow it to deflate slowly into your mouth, keeping your epiglottis closed and your soft palate open so that the air escapes through your nose. You can check that your soft palate is open (and your epiglottis is closed) by pinching your nose during the process: if your technique is right, pinching your nose should stop the flow of air into your mouth. Once you can do this, try closing and opening the soft palate during the course of the deflation of the balloon.

In order to train in the water you really want an expert in mouthfill. It is easy to think you are doing mouthfill when in fact the pressure is still coming from your abdomen - and it is obviously dangerous to push from your diaphragm when you are at/very near residual volume. A proper instructor will check for tension in your abdomen and monitor the deflation of your cheeks to ensure that you are getting the technique right.

 

[growingupninja]

I think if you are wearing a mask and not EQing the mask it can cause problems opening the soft palate.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[mikenator5000]

Some folks revert to the Valsalva maneuver unknowingly, seemingly due to nerves/tension/etc. Consider trying a nice slow free immersion dive to isolate what is going on without the pressure (pun intended) of worrying about riding your ears too far, having to kick, etc. If you're not reverting to Valsalva, make sure your chin is down and that your chest and diaphragm are nice and relaxed.

That said, I doubt it's a mouthfill issue that you're having. I am not a super experienced deep diver myself but I can get past 40m without packing, reverse packing, or needing a mouthfill. Being relaxed and having good body position should be sufficient to permit standard Frenzel equalization to that depth or at least close to it. If it is a mouthfill issue, FRC dives are good for practicing at shallower depth.