Muscle mass

[Johnny1973]

Hi, this is my first thread (and writing) and just few minutes ago I made PB 5:45:martial(day after brutal leg workout). It has been a week since I started to train static apnea more seriously. My old record 5:15 is about 10 years old, I achieved it hyperventilating ( until muscles started to spasm). Then I was in top physical shape (professional cycling), but without apnea training. My bodyweight was 73kg, height 178cm, but now I weigh 97kg, mostly from muscles(weightlifting) and I really wonder, how much and what kind of an effect has that kind of muscle mass on breath holding. (I come from Slovenia, so sorry about my english).
At the same time I would like to thank to all the participants on this great forum for all invaluable informations you have given.

 

[jome]

It is a common belief that muscle mass destroys your apnea abilities. Personally I don't believe so. It might have an effect, but not nearly as dramatic as people usually think. I've met a lot of divers who refuse to do any gym work because they are afraid of developing too much muscle...Bah...Personally I think it's just a lame excuse to dismiss one's self from gym training.

First, unless you are on heavy steroids, it takes a lot of work to develop any seriously apnea-hurting muscle mass. Not just going to the gym a couple of times a week, but real mass-oriented training with proper eating etc. It is not a very big risk to develop such muscles "by accident".

Second, I'm not so convinced muscles (in reasonable amount) are that hurtful to apnea in anycase. I'm not a bodybuilder, but I've put on a, shall we say, visibly different amount of muscle mass (I guess it's time to finally say this out loud but don't let the avatar fool you ). I'm not in my top apnea shape right now, but that's mostly because I haven't trained. But at least my apnea has not disastrously fallen either, I can still pull of pretty much the dives I always have.

Sooo, what does all this rambling amount to...If you're going for a world record in static, then maybe you should watchout bulking up a lot. But so far from what I've seen, having muscles is by no means an automatic indication that you will suck at it.

And you your self are an example. If you can do a pb after putting on 25kg, then it cannot be THAT disastrous?

Of course, with 178/97 ratio, in your case, we are talking a pretty different case, assuming not a whole lot of that mass is fat That is some impressive mass...But if you can do 5:45 in static, who cares how much mass you have? That's a good time for a person of any build

 

[foxfish]

Not sure which is more impressive? 24kg of muscle or 5.45 static. Any how good on you mate, any pics of before & after?

 

[Johnny1973]

Thanks for your thoughts, Jome. Obviously we have similar philosophy about that. It is probably hard to set any rules in sport, which is so complex. To me the main paradigm is: more muscle - more blood- more oxygen.... or more muscle - bigger O2 burning, CO2 producing engine?

foxfish: Thanks for the compliment! As for the pictures, maybe on some different forum.

 

[foxfish]

OK Johnny, but as you become more familiar with our friendly community I will ask again. However you did title your thread Muscle mass & I am an x competitive body builder myself so please excuse my interest.

 

[Waterysmile]

OK Johnny, but as you become more familiar with our friendly community I will ask again. However you did title your thread Muscle mass & I am an x competitive body builder myself so please excuse my interest.

I am doing squats at the moment (not literally) with a very light weight (I'm weak) aiming for 3 sets of 20 reps.

Which competitions? Any stats? PM if you like as I have an interest in weight training.

 

[JPPLAY]

Fin swimmers have larger amounts of mass and they have set new world records in dynamics. Good technique and well trained muscles is the key, most freedivers don't even come close to proper technique that competitive swimmers have.
I know a former national team member Synchro swimmer she at one time could tie our national record no-fins women dynamic of 100 meters without doing any the preparation that we do before a record attempt. I think our sport has a long way to go before we see this time of elite athletes that train six hours a day 6 days a week to get to the high levels.
If you are doing lots of cardio with your weight training I don't see how putting on the mass could be harmful to your static.

 

[foxfish]

Like I said X body builder but there are a few members who train. I damaged both my knees through excessive squatting! Never won anything just entered locale competitions, in good condition I would squat sets of 3 x 10 x 170 kg, bench 3 x 8 x 130kg. However I managed to maintain a good physique using a strict style & much less weight.

 

[Waterysmile]

Like I said X body builder but there are a few members who train. I damaged both my knees through excessive squatting! Never won anything just entered locale competitions, in good condition I would squat sets of 3 x 10 x 170 kg, bench 3 x 8 x 130kg. However I managed to maintain a good physique using a strict style & much less weight.

That's some pretty decent strength there! Deadlifting has been my best lift but only around 1 x 10 x 90 kg but my body is not robust and prone to being overtrained very easily.

Was it bad form that did your knees in? My main problem is my shoulders as my rotator cuffs are very very weak so I am trying to do rehab exercises.

My thinking is stronger legs = less effort required per stroke so less oxygen used.

 

[spaghetti]

L However I managed to maintain a good physique using a strict style & much less weight.

Time to share your "Guernsey cream mushrooms" recipe :t

-just kidding: Fox is still fit and looking great, according to recent pictures.

 

[foxfish]

Cheers mate dont do weights anymore but running every other day & pool training twice a week.

 

[SanSan]

Hi Johnny

Nice to find somebody from Slovenia here. I'm from Maribor.

I think muscle mass benefit/loss very much depends on discipline and style. I belive in statics there could be a significant loss but in dynamics mostly CW where bloodshift is strong the additional blood may realy come in handy. I also thing that the faster your style is more muscles can be beneficial. Of course I agree it has to be quality mucle mass and not some uberhuman bodybuilder...

Btw there is also a forum in Slovenian language and a webpage with lots of articles at Potapljanje na dah in podvodni ribolov - novice H2O team

You could also join us in some competitions... There is a competition scheduled for begining of march in Maribor.

Well i wish you a great time here on deeperblue. Its the best forum about freediving there is.

 

[Johnny1973]

OK Johnny, but as you become more familiar with our friendly community I will ask again. However you did title your thread Muscle mass & I am an x competitive body builder myself so please excuse my interest.

Well, that changes everything! I dont have a lot pictures of myself, but you will get some as soon as I figure out how the sending of pictures works (I will not be at the computer probably whole weekend). Nice numbers, mate!I am a recreational weightlifter, but when I was building mass it was pretty intense. But the real results came when I started eating right (A LOT!!!). Then I squatted over 200kg, benched around 135kg, but not so bodybuilding style (lesser repetitions). Now I wasnt training for a whole year(I got a sonrofl), and am slowly coming into shape. And of course doing much lighter weights with higher repetitions (going for the burn).
Cheers, mate! (where are Channel Islands, down under maybe?)

 

[Johnny1973]

Hi, SanSan. Jeah, I read a lot on H2O team, especially spearfishing section. Sooner or later I will join the forum, it just so happened that I joined this forum first. Regarding the competitions, I am extremely tempted, but I have other priorities at the moment (family, job, education.... ). I know myself good enough, that I couldnt compete without 100% dedication and effort, which cost time and energy. Maybe things will change in the near future and I will will be able to find the middle way?
Oh, I saw on H2O that a lot is happening in Maribor, do you know if there is apnea training in Ljubljana? Se vidmo na H2O:friday
Martin

 

[SanSan]

I don't know exactly if there is organized apnea training in Ljubljana but i know there are a few good freedivers from there. You should try and contact Aleš Seliškar or Luka Pengov and ask them how they train. Maybe you could reach somebody on H2O forum or just send me a PM and I'll give you their e-mails.

 

[foxfish]

I am a recreational weightlifter, but when I was building mass it was pretty intense. But the real results came when I started eating right (A LOT!!!).
Cheers, mate! (where are Channel Islands, down under maybe?)

That is interesting, I am now 47 & haven't really weight trained for 15 years. In my time diet & nutrition was not the precised science it is now, basically we existed on a 20% protein 70% carbs & 10% fat diet. When I could afford supplements we would drink high carb powder mixed with full cream milk. This diet worked to a certain extent but we never looked really "cut". I still have an interest in nutrition & keep in contact with my previous training partners. The guys now eat a very different diet based mainly on high protein consumption. I also eat a much higher protein diet now myself & feel pretty good doing so.
I live in Guernsey a small Island situated between England & France.

 

[Mr. X]

A man of many talents Foxfish! I used to train a lot for climbing and it got me into other activities (weights -esp. pull-up related, circuit training, swimming, running, cycling,..), mainly as ways to keep fit & keep my weight down. I am also interested in nutrition & health in general. I too found reducing fat (eliminating it as far as practical) & increasing protein & fibre intake beneficial, and actually did achieve a fairly "cut" physique a couple of times and for a few years -- by accident more than design (I was extremely active at the time while also watching my eating & drinking -- part of keeping my weight down). I like eating, so didn't really need protein powders (although I tried a couple) and I think they now recommend that you don't use them for weightloss. The exercise & activity seem to be by far the most important factor though. [If you are one of those people who have trouble gaining weight, getting up in the night & eating an extra high protein meal/snack is supposed to be effective].

However, I am a bit wary of excessive protein these days, as it is associated with gout, kidney problems and excessive bone loss in older people (perhaps the reason why countries that eat a lot of dairy food suffer more osteoporosis, despite the high calcium content of dairy). A few years ago Weider started selling strips intended to help you determine if you had eaten enough/too much protein, I think they detected some by-product of protein breakdown (keytones?) in the urine. Some oils are vitally important too, omega 3 & 6 fatty acids -- fish oil, nuts!

 

[GreekDiver]

the best after workout shake :

1 cup of oats
1 glass of skim milk or 1% fatmilk ( i like to use that new fatfree plus milk available now- it doesnt taste like water )
2 scoops of whey strawberry
1 tablespoon of creatine
1 tablespoon of flatseed oil
1/4 of cup of dextrose
3 ice cubes

Put all that in a blender at highest speed. It tastes good and its got everything you need.

i have been working out 5 day a week for a year. I got great results. I went from 170lbs to 190lbs (5'10")and my waist is smaller. My bench went from 130lbs to 275lbs. The real trick to results is diet. Eating 6 times a day of quality food is the toughest part of working out. Lifting weights is easy. Eating when you arent hungry is brutal.

 

[GreekDiver]

That is interesting, I am now 47 & haven't really weight trained for 15 years. In my time diet & nutrition was not the precised science it is now, basically we existed on a 20% protein 70% carbs & 10% fat diet. When I could afford supplements we would drink high carb powder mixed with full cream milk. This diet worked to a certain extent but we never looked really "cut". I still have an interest in nutrition & keep in contact with my previous training partners. The guys now eat a very different diet based mainly on high protein consumption. I also eat a much higher protein diet now myself & feel pretty good doing so.
I live in Guernsey a small Island situated between England & France.

one cup of oats is 54 grams of carbs. Imo, those carb shakes arent good.

 

[Mr. X]

... The real trick to results is diet. Eating 6 times a day of quality food is the toughest part of working out. Lifting weights is easy. Eating when you arent hungry is brutal.

I have never had a problem eating (unfortunately that works against me, as I prefer to be light - doh!) - but eating when you are not hungry sounds grim. There is also a potential problem that they sometimes call "ex-Marine syndrome", or similar, in the States where you aquire a large appetite when young and very active but find that the appetite does not diminish when you get older & less active.

There is hope though, I have a friend who is in his mid-50's who is buff. Stallone (59) is supposed to be back in shape for Rocky VI too:

[Looks like the image was "retouched" though - see right waistband]