• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

My Cressi Sioux Custom Upgrade Tips

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Lazuli

New Member
May 9, 2008
538
180
0
I don't know how many of you use 60cm euro guns but it seems that they generate a lot of mixed views and opinions. Some, it seems, appreciate the maneuverability of a shorter barrel length whilst others berate them for lack of range, power and utility. They are said to have their place during times of bad visibility, or for hunting flatfish, but on the whole I get the impression that they play the "hind legs" to guns of 75-90cm length, especially in UK waters (which is where I dive).

Last year I was given a Cressi Sioux 60cm gun, my first ever speargun, and was thrilled at the prospect of getting into the water and bagging some fish. It was a factory standard setup with no modifications or replaced components. I went hunting mullet on my first outing with it and needless to say the results were dire:

- Spear bounced off fish at point-blank range due to lack of power.
- No range to speak of.
- Spear shot either high or low.
- Very slow spear/muzzle exit speed

Add to this the fact that I was a newbie spearo and things just seemed pretty pointless. After months of working on my technique and still experiencing a high level of innacuracy from my gun I have decided to make a few modifications to this entry-level speargun in the hope of making it a more efficient and deadly carbine for UK waters (as well as keeping safety in mind).

When I got it the gun came with 2x13mm black latex bands and a very basic bent wire wishbone. The steel spear was 5.5-6mm and showed signs of corrosion along the shaft. I rigged the gun with heavy-duty Beuchat mono. It was a non-starter in the water (as explained previously) and very under powered.

So I replaced the old factory issue 13mm standard screw-in bands with two new 16mm Imersion power bands. Although this increased the muzzle velocity slightly there were no discernible improvements in accuracy or range.

Not wanting to bin the gun I then added an articulated wishbone which was far sturdier than the basic wire wishbone which came as standard. This gave an impression of improved range but on a 60cm gun the barrel length seemed too short to make the most of the 16mm bands and articulated wishbone combo (the bands lost elastic force too quickly and did not impart power to the spear). Time for a rethink....

Despite the gun's shortcomings, I found the length to be handy around rocks and in poor vis (which there can be a lot of in UK waters!). I decided on one final set of upgrades before admitting it was time to get a new gun.

This time I got rid of the old heavy-duty monofilament, ditched the spear that came as standard, and removed the 16mm screw-in bands. I then upgraded the gun as follows:

- Added one Omer 16.5mm Top-Energy latex band with articulated wishbone of the type found on guns like the Cressi Comanche. Mounted this new band through the second band mounting at the front of the gun.
- Added a new stainless steel tahitian spear which is longer than the old one and thicker at 6.5mm (still designed for a 60cm gun though).
- Added an Omer rail guide which I then cut-down to fit a 60cm barrel between the original spear guide and the muzzle.
- Added thinner Cressi multifilament line as a replacement for the Beuchat mono.

These upgrades have transformed the gun from being a pretty dud entry-level speargun to something resembling a carbine railgun. the single band going around the front of the muzzle rather than two bands screwing into the muzzle changes the way the wishbone interacts with the spear giving more power along the shorter barrel. The rail keeps the wider and longer spear nice and snug which should improve the handling (and potentially) the accuracy of the gun. It also makes for a better looking gun (which is a bonus!). Also, the single, more powerful band could be safer than doubling up the rubbers for more power.

We will see what the fish think of it when they reappear.

So, if the economic downturn begins to bite and getting a better gun seems like a dream, maybe you could experiment with a few parts upgrades here and there, especially if you are using a factory standard Cressi Sioux 60 or 75. Just don't overdo it and stay safe.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X and spaghetti
Well done, Lazuli. Indeed the only downside of the Sioux (cheaper brother of the Apache and Comanche) is the set up, and especially the poor, thin bands it comes with.
Upgrarded with good bands and a good shaft, the Sioux becomes equal to its "brothers". Note that 4 (four) Cmas spearfishing world championships have been won by italian spearos Mazzarri and Bellani using Apache 60 and Comanche 60 as their main weapon during the comps. So the gun you have now in your hands is a world class gun. I too own a Comanche 60, and forum member Marwan too: we've made lots of fish with it.
Indeed short guns like this are perfect for seizing fish in rock hole and kelp. That's why they're very popular among competitive spearos, who mostly target hole and kelp fish (for reasons it would be too long to explain here).
When you'll upgrade to a 75, or even more to a 90, you will notice the big difference in shooting range, but you'll still appreciate the handiness and manouverability of your 60 and you will continue to bring it on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X and Lazuli
Hi,

I have an old Viper 60cm which I use when crawling around in holes. I have changed the spear to 6.7mm and 18mm rubbers - this setup is enough to stone a grouper (same species as the med) of 6.5kg stone dead! In poor viz - I have taken Mangrove Snappers up to 3.5kg. I also use it as a second gun when shore diving to place a second shot into big fish (it punches through the head of a Giant Kingfish at 1m range). Obviously there is a limit to the amount of power you will be able to generate as the rummers can only be shortened up to a point. This is where the main problem lies. You will find that the short powerful rubbers will stretch and within a fairly short time start losing power.

I think the main problem with your first setup was the spear diameter was too low, so the momentum of the spear was low (ie drag in the water slowed it down too much) and as for the rubbers:(!

I am sure that the rail you have added will improve the accuracy of your gun tremendously.

Changing to the articulating wishbone has probably saved your fingers. I have seen what happens when one of the wire jobs breaks while loading a gun - slices the finger and palm to the bone through gloves!!!!

Good luck - hope you get a bass soon!

CIAO
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazuli
Thanks for the upbeat feedback in the last two posts.

The chap who gave me the gun did warn me that he had caught nothing with it :) !!!

The original spear was very thin and feeble. The point was extremely close to the flapper and the metal also seemed quite soft. After sharpening it a few times I realised that it was losing length rapidly. It also seemed to have corrosion eating into it at points. Definately time to upgrade to stainless! I've kept the old shaft for flatties and rock work though.

As for the wire wishbones... They are total junk. I had a new replacement wire wishbone bend and exit one of the plastic screw caps on its first use, rendering it unsafe in my opinion. Spadefish, the carnage you describe sends a shiver through me.
 
Last edited:
nice write up and great little gun you have built. Short guns are a must in between dense weed or with strong currents. Two ideas for you to play with:

- don't give up on screw in bands just yet. With that higher mass spear you could try 18mm bands. The screw in bands are more in line with the spear and should produce a straighter shot. The one piece you have produces a pull down effect on the wishbone. As long as you compensate whilst shooting you should be fine, but sometimes (like nearly all the time) one does not have that much time to think/aim before firing.

- consider an open muzzle. See the picture of a "conversion" I did to a closed muzzle Omer. 100% the best mod I have done. Shooting process is: see fish, see spear = shoot. Very fast and laser accurate.

UPDATE: sorry, must state that right hand version, with brass screw/epoxy blob, is far far superior. whole deal never tangles.

I have given up on my Mares Spark Mimetic (85Cm) as I couldn't hit a damn thing :rcard
 

Attachments

  • open_muzzle_linewrap.jpg
    open_muzzle_linewrap.jpg
    69.6 KB · Views: 500
  • muzzle1.jpg
    muzzle1.jpg
    345.7 KB · Views: 424
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X and Lazuli
If you go back to screw-in bands, remember to get bands with threads that match the gun. They aren't all the same. Maybe Spaghetti can give you a list of what will work for your Cressi gun.
 
If you go back to screw-in bands, remember to get bands with threads that match the gun. They aren't all the same. Maybe Spaghetti can give you a list of what will work for your Cressi gun.

Yeah, the Imersion bands I upgraded to remained a bit slack in the muzzle as well as being a rather tight fit into the wishbone sockets. Omer threads seem to work well.
 
Thanks for sharing you experiences & insights Lauli ;). Sounds like you now have a gun you are happy with. I suspect a longer gun (may be an 80 or 90cm gun for Cornwall?) will feature in your future. Short guns are so much fun though -- more "gun fight at the OK coral" than "Deer Stalker" mind set perhaps. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazuli
Re: My Cressi Sioux 75 line

Hi there

I have a cressi sioux 75, I just bought it, can anyone tell me how to put the line its kind of weird for me. Thnx
 
Hi, there are several good threads on DeeperBlue.com that describe rigging a speargun, most notably Miles's Spearfishing for Dummies: http://forums.deeperblue.com/beginner-hunting/64504-dummies-guide-rigging-speargun.html

I also posted the manufacturers guide for one of the cheaper speargun models which used an unusual attachment, the Arrow rather than the Sioux (it only supported a half-wrap :(): http://forums.deeperblue.com/beginn...ies-guide-rigging-speargun-12.html#post764874

Looking back at this thread, seeing that Lazuli was frustrated by the power* and range of his 60cm gun, an alternative approach would have been to buy a second larger gun (75/82/90) and keep the small one for holes & other short range work.

A couple of additional customization ideas:
  • Dyneema (or perhaps cable) wishbone
  • Camouflage tape on the barrel - so that you can't find the gun when you drop it:D

It is interesting to read of Lazuli switch from screw-in bands to a more powerful rubber loop. I wonder if that would have worked as well without the rail:hmm? The reason for the improvement might be akin to that purported for RA bulk rubber muzzles - the muzzles hold an extra 10cm of rubber vs. screws-in (which squander precious barrel length I think, esp. on shorter guns).

*I wonder how easy it is to judge the power (or accuracy) of your speargun. I sometimes feel that might speargun is really weak for some reason - but then plug a fish and distance and realise that its just my mind playing tricks on me. I usually put inaccuracy down to me rather than me speargun:D.
 
Last edited:
Ok,
This will require allot of patience from you experienced people out there. I got "given" a short Cressi Souix (seems no one admits to buying one) and all it came with was a spear and some cord wrapped in black sleeving. It only has one rubber sling (elastic tubing). I could have gotten the next size up for the same price but opted for the shortie. That may have been a mistake after reading but I am brand new to spear guns and I am just tooling around a shallow area with a nice reef drop off so I thought that would be the best tool for the job. I understand how to hook up the fire line to the back of the spear, then pull it through the barral and go back to the line release trigger and then back to the muzzle. After that I am afraid I am a bit lost. There is a round hole in the front of the gun (sideways) and then behind that there is a smaller hole that looks like maybe I should put a clip or line through? How does the line attach to the gun and is that all the line I get?
If I can find a bungee does that attach to the nose of the gun and then the line goes out from there? Plus I live in Dubai which isn't a bad place except getting good information or finding some one else who does this maybe an issue. The good fishing stores usually have some guy from India working there who is just a store keep. I am stoked though and looking to bag the big one with a pee shooter it seems. If you saw my rod and reel collection you would know I do not play when it comes to quality equipment. Just trying to get started and get the jest for now. Oh my god my wife is gonna kill me with yet another obssession :naughty
 
Hello . I've got a Cressisub Geronimo 60. I recently went to Decathlon and purchased a 16 mm second rubber for the muzzle. Im using the stock shaft still .

I have found it to increase the kick of the gun significantley ! But not the accuracy. At 4 meters its very accurate. Ive got the hang on how to aim the thing now. The way foward is to use a lamp and spear them in the tunnels and holes . At point blank I use just the one rubber.

Two bands are needed as I've lost a few sitters due to having to slow a spear.
 
Hi, there are several good threads on DeeperBlue.com that describe rigging a speargun, most notably Miles's Spearfishing for Dummies: http://forums.deeperblue.com/beginner-hunting/64504-dummies-guide-rigging-speargun.html



A couple of additional customization ideas:
  • Dyneema (or perhaps cable) wishbone
  • Camouflage tape on the barrel - so that you can't find the gun when you drop it:D

*I wonder how easy it is to judge the power (or accuracy) of your speargun. I sometimes feel that might speargun is really weak for some reason - but then plug a fish and distance and realise that its just my mind playing tricks on me. I usually put inaccuracy down to me rather than me speargun:D.


Hi what camp tape would you suggest? I am not sure what would be waterproof. Would gaffer tape work?
 
Well done, Lazuli. Indeed the only downside of the Sioux (cheaper brother of the Apache and Comanche) is the set up, and especially the poor, thin bands it comes with.=

Hi thought the only difference between Apache and Sioux was circular band vs screw in bands.

I am looking for a decent short speargun that I could take to Mexico (I have a pneumatic but those I heard are not allowed in Mexico). that would fit in my 80 cm / 30 inch travel duffel.
I have a Beuchat Espadon 50 cm, but I was told its mechanism is plastic and won't support bands thicker than 13mm. I was thinking Apache 45 or Sioux 50. Sioux 50 is a little longer and I think it can support 2 bands (screw in + circular).
Ideal would be a 60 cm speargun with a shorter shaft. Would that be an issue? A 60 cm speargun should fit in my bag, but the shafts they come with a few cm too long.

Any tips? Also considering Beuchat Arka. .

Thank you!
 
Custom order 50cm Rob Allen railgun (or non-rail gun)?
 
Yeah, Like Mr. X said, order a rob allen scorpia 50o (50cm). I have one and they are great little guns. If you order it from spearfishing.co.uk, you will get the upgraded low profile muzzle (supports two bands) for free!!, and the gun is only 60£. I run two bands currently and it packs a punch!

Best of luck!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: stefpix and Mr. X
Thank you. I am in the USA, the RA Scorpia looked more like $160. I ordered a Salvimar Intruder Pro that seems to check all the boxes (it has a rail, and inverted mechanism so it is probably closer to a 60) from Subprof (I hope it won't take half a year to receive it and other stuff) . I would have gone for the Scorpia at that price. I saw locally the Beuchat Arka Competition $84 seems decent, with steel mech and 16 mm band, but Salvimar seems better. But I have to say the pneumatic Salvimar Predathor 65 seems very accurate (tried on some vegetation as there was no fish left in the Long Island sound NY when I went a couple of weeks ago, when the water temp drops it seems the fish may go elsewhere - even the juveniles). Thanks for the tip.
 
Yeah, Like Mr. X said, order a rob allen scorpia 50o (50cm). I have one and they are great little guns. If you order it from spearfishing.co.uk, you will get the upgraded low profile muzzle (supports two bands) for free!!, and the gun is only 60£. I run two bands currently and it packs a punch!

Best of luck!!

That site does not seem to ship to the continental USA, but I managed to enter my address and country US (outlying islands). Price was 95 USD including shipping. A lot of gear is so much more expensive in the USA than in Europe. Some masks and spearguns in the USA cost twice as m
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT