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My first blackout

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
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I'm posting this in hope that some will learn from my mistake (and there was one terrible mistake) and also to hear any comments that could help me with figuring why it had happen or any other conclusions that might be drawn from this.
There are going to be a lot of details here as I'm trying to analyze this incident, so this is going to be long, and maybe boring.

My first blackout. Atleast I think it was a BO and not an LMC, I think the distinction in this case is not important as it should be threated the same.

It was on the 7th of October, my last diving day in Dahab (out of a week or so of diving). We were diving on a rope near the lighthouse, bottom is sandy at about 17m, with a slope of maybe 40 degrees down (guessing).

I was using plastic bi-fins and 3mm Elios with 3kg on the weight belt (nuetral buoyancy at around 11m on full inhale).

I'll try to describe the diving session and some parts from the previous day.

Terms I use:
TLC: full inhale, no packing.
Contrlled exhale: I'm comfertable diving only shallow (10m~) with FRC (or close to FRC) so if I dive deeper and don't want to dive with full lungs I exhale a number of short "puffs" of air that seem to leave me with relatively consistant volume.
Static on the bottom: Not a "real" static as I will move around a little if there is something interesting to see or grab something/borrow my hands in the sand if I'm gliding down because of the slope.
Dynamic on the bottom: not a "real" dynamic as I will not try to cover as much distance but just swim around close to the bottom with a few fin thrusts and/or pushing with my hands from the bottom.

Numbers are: (Time of day), (Depth), (Dive time), (Approximate Interval)
12:22 10.0m 0:28 Recovered a weightbelt with about 8-10 kilos on the way to the rope, struggled back to shore and then went on to the rope, there was moderate excertion as I was very negative.
12:33 10.3m 1:18 TLC. Just a warmup dive, clearing air out of the suit and such. Don't remember if it was FI (pull down) or CW (fins).
3~ minutes rest
12:37 17.3m 2:34 TLC, FI, static
3:30~
12:43 16.7m 2:06 Controlled exhale (3 "puffs"), CW, static
5~
12:50 17.3m 2:00 Controlled exhale (4 "puffs"), CW, static
4~
12:56 27.1m 1:44 TLC, CW, dynamic, BO
5:30~
13:03 10.3m 1:16 TLC, just to check that I am ok and "regain confidence".
End of session.

This is how I remember the dive with the blackout:

I started gliding around 13m I think, at the bottom of the rope I pushed myself down the slope, kept gliding parallel to the slope, with a few fin strokes or hand pushes from the bottom here and there, I gathered some distance on the bottom that way till I heard my alarm (26m) and stopped on the bottom (27m) for a few seconds, turned around and started finnig leisurely back to the rope. I could see the rope from where I turned so the distance wasn't more than 30m probably, my estimation is 15-20m. Already when I neared the rope (18m~ depth) I started feeling hypoxic, which should've rang some bell as it doesn't happen to me very often and never at those depths. It wasn't a strong sensation and it didn't occur to me at that time that I may be at risk. I remember getting to the surface, I recall the image of the bottle (buoy) at the end of the line, I remember taking a breath (which might have been a bigger breath than I intended), I remember taking the snorkel in my hand as in to put it back into my mouth - I guess that wasn't a conscious decision, it's just what I did in the few previous dives after 1-3 breaths. But I didn't put it in my mouth. I remember feeling one twich on the right side of my body (but that might have been Greg who caught me) but I have no visual recollection to connect with the second that twitch occured. I asked Greg if I had a samba and I don't recall now what exactly he answered but it was positive about me screwing it up. I concluded at that moment that it was a samba. Since I just recalled the twitch I said jestuflly that it would've probably been ok in a competition and he laughed. I felt fine, as if nothing strange had happened. After he dove I told him what I remember from the dive and he said that after I inhaled I bounced down underwater and he grabbed me. So there was half a second or so that my head was underwater which was missing from my memory - I don't remember the visuals of it nor the sensation of water on my face. He said I came right out of it.
I dove one more slow dive to 10 meters, just incase I'll need it later as a psychological anchor, also to see if there are any strange sensations. I felt totally normal after that dive session, except the idea of a blackout that shoock me a little.
Canceled the afternoon dive session but went on a night dive (well, more like a night frolic) in which most dives didn't exceed 1 minute or 10 meters, with maybe 2 dives to 15m and 1:30 (where my alarms were set).

Considerations/suspected reasons:

Time I spent active (dynamic) - I've done a few very comfertable slow dynamics (finning, not gliding off the floor) to and fro dive sites and all of them ended at 1:00-1:05 range (with me checking the numbers only after the dive). On this dive I was active in some way almost the entire duration, but I've done the same dive profile just to 25m a few times the previous days (more than once per session) on the same location with no signs of hypoxia. Probably with a longer stay at 25m. So I don't think that I exceeded my dynamic time limit on that dive, I might be wrong though.

Breath-up, Hyperventilations and contractions - My breath-up in the last months is something like this:
Breathe normal for most of the duration of the interval (try control my breathing).
About one minute before starting the dive: Inhale to the max, Exhale to the max (moderate speed), take a few normal breaths again, inhale to the max and dive. I do that to prepare for a full inhale for the dive - I feel that my heartrate doesn't rise as much on the second inhale. (I'm considering now doing the first inhale ealier in my breathup).
About contractions... well, when I'm in the 'zone' my contractions (while diving, not static) are small tensing of the diaphragm, not full blown body rippling contracions (as I don't appriciate those underwater and like to have only easy dives). I guess there were a few of those but I didn't really take notice them. (Maybe I should work on being more aware of them.)

Not doing a proper recovery breath - may prevent a BO/LMC if I'm on the edge.

The settings of this dive session (more reasones):

I Didn't feel excerted when I started diving on the rope.

I felt pulmonary blood shift on both of the controlled exhale dives, a very pronounced one on the second dive. On the other hand I don't recall ever in my life feeling peripheral vasoconstriction so I don't know if I had any that day. Same for lactic acid buildup in the legs.

I usually try to make my surface interval twice my dive time (for anything below 30m), this time I didn't as I was intrigued by this issue and wanted to try shorter surface intervals, figuring that DCS is not really an issue at such depths/times and that I am supposed to "reoxygenate" fast enough (what might have been a mistake).

I recall not "wetting" my suit that dive session which was different from most of the dive sessions in the previous days. Maybe excertion before the session weakend my dive response?

I doubt I was dehydrated.

The day before I was in the blue hole, the jeep that took us had a TERRIBLE exhaust issue... all of us that sat in the back kept complaining about how much exhaust we inhaled. At the end of the ride back my head was a little dizzy and a I felt a slight headache and nausea, the feeling faded in less than an hour.
I suspect carbon monoxide poisoning as one of the factors in this BO incident (though I can't really tell). I think that I might have abosrbed more of it on the way back because of pulmonary blood shift as my last dive before rushing to gather equipment and to the jeep was a forced exhale one to 4-5 meters (which felt a lot for me as I don't do much depth/pressure training and even then only FRC).
I didn't find any real info on the web as to how long it takes to get clean from CO (maximum 48 hours except nurological symptomes), I saw claims that carboxyhaemoglobin's half-life period is 5 hours. The dive session was 19-20 hours after the last jeep ride which MIGHT leave me with 6.25% CO of the amount I abosrbed. I have no idea how much influence that could have had.

Food: I don't recall what I ate but it couldn't be noticeably different from what I ate any other day in Dahab.

Sleep: I did wake up a couple of times in the middle of the night (including the moque at 2:30am due to Ramadan), but it wasn't the first night it happened and it's not that uncommon for me. I didn't feel any fatique in the morning.

Blood pressure: I usually have normal BP, inclining to high if anything. I don't see a reason to think it was different that day.

Pre-dive preparation: I did my normal (very few) diaphragmatic and ribcage stretches (with a few packs).

[To be continured on the next post]
 
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My first blackout (part II):

From all those reasons the one I find the most "unordinary" was the CO exposure. Still, I went over my ability so there was a failure.

Now, here comes my grave mistake (left at the end for shock value):
When I went out diving I was not intending to do any serious dives, just fun dives. If I had thought about this better then I was supposed to dive even more conservatively as if I was diving solo. The reason for that was that my buddy had a foot-thingy from his mono and was diving FINLESS. So if I had blacked out at depth... ETC!

I'll call that a buddy misconception.
The link between Greg's lack of fins and me diving solo didn't sank to it's full meaning. Even though I meant to be conservative, as that is the reason I didn't go for a PB the day before at the blue hole - he was finless then as well.

I was too complacent. I was diving for a week, everyday, every dive was wonderful, every dive was perfect, every dive was successful. How can it not be? I don't put goals to myself but to have fun. I don't set a number on a line and if I turn around too early I feel like I have failed. I just dive. It's not a distress signal that tells me to go up, it's either the numbers on my wrist, the alarm or some half-conscious decision that seems to be made by the "dive computer" I have in my brain.
I guess at the back of my mind I felt omnipotent. That feeling is one of my (many) drives for freediving.

To show some more how stupid/irresponsible I was: the day before (as Roland reminded me after that dive session), I did the "bells" solo - a mini swim-through at 25-6 meters. Twice. There wasn't any "dynamic" part on the bottom, just up and down. I estimate those dives at 60% difficulty of my blackout dive, but obviously I'm not aware of my limits as I thought.

My "level" of freediving is nothing to brag about but it might be relevant, like the history of a patient.
Been freediving for about 3 years, nothing regular, had periods of weeks (and even a month once) of regular every day diving and had dry spells of 4 months and more.
I almost never train depth, I don't really do line diving. In fact, I almost never train (dry or wet). And I just don't dive enough. That leaves me with a PB of 36m that was easly set 18 months ago, with no trouble. I barely had the chance to try and increase it, nor the motiviation. I did dive several 30-32m dives in that week in dahab and also a few weeks before in Eilat, some of those dives with bottom time. Without those my yearly PB would've been 25 which is how deep is where I usually dive.
Static PB of 5:30-5:35 (forgot) about 3 years ago as a newibe. Barely touched statics since then, but I tried a few statics about six months ago and reached 5 minutes in very few attempts.
Dynamic: Never really tried.
Longest dive: First day I got to dahab I did 2-3 2:50-3:17 long dives, on that same place I had the blackout. The longest was a 3:17 CW dive to 20m (yes, gliding the slope). All felt easy and lacked hypoxic signs (but blue lips probably).
Didn't have a blackout before. Same for LMC (as far as I know, though I have one suspicion from almost a year ago).
None of those PB's have left me hypoxic so they don't reveal (to me) my potential in numbers. If there was something that blocked me in setting them it was either CO2 tolerance or the lack of will to go deeper and coming back up with plastic fins (that are too hard for my taste) as it's not as fun and I want my dives to be ONLY fun.

As my recreational depth and time increases maybe I should try to push those PB's further to get a better notion of my limits or to actually increase my limits.

Important reminders to myself:
I have no way to measure 100% correctly the difficulty of a dive.
Dive with a buddy.


Comments, tips, questions and such are more than welcome.

EDIT: added a dive profile.
 

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nice to have you still with us. and nice one greg for a job well done.

i can only guess why you had a b/o. but i think its not so important to figure out the exact cause, if there is even one, as it is to realize that one has to dive more responsibly ALL the time, and think ahead about things like buddy not having fins etc.

to think you can figure out why this happened is to maybe think you can prevent it happening again by changing x. of course one does need to think about it and make any changes that might prevent it happening again, but not at the expense of believing that it wont happen again just because you've covered all the variable, if you know what i mean. because you cant. so you still got to dive as if every dive might be your last. and just as importanly, to watch your budy as if every dive might be his last.

b.
 
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Hi Michael,
I think that it may have been a combination of being tired or "over trained" by diving continuously over several days plus not enough surface time to really reoxygenate your body. Even for dives under 30 meters I generally use a 2 min+ recovery time and then a good breathe-up, especially for those dives where I get close to my limits.

For me, there's a difference when you dive right off a recovery time that has been "sufficient" so you feel "pretty good" or "ok" and diving after recovery time + a breathe-up where you feel totally relaxed and knowing you are going to enjoy this dive. If there's that little edge, that falling short of total comfort, then I think it's a dive to not to push. Just something to keep in mind.

In your description of the BO dive, you start off at 13 meters but you don't tell us how you were feeling before you went down. Do you remember how you felt?

Adrian
 
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Hi Michael, I'm glad to know you are ok. It is scary when something like that happens for the first time. I can't see any obvious reason why it happened.

Maybe the exhaust fumes and CO had something to do with it. It seems like a long time though. I find that exhaust fumes make me ill even in relatively small amounts - a lot of what I used to call travel sickness was in fact caused by being stuck in the back of a car with exhaust fumes coming in.

Don't worry about the posts being long - it is useful for all of us to share things like that.

Dive safe

Lucia
 
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Adrian said:
In your description of the BO dive, you start off at 13 meters but you don't tell us how you were feeling before you went down. Do you remember how you felt?
Was feeling good, like in any other dive before that.

Overtraning...
I tend to feel when I'm stressed, even if I can't find the reason behind that.
On the other hand, I have improved in my performance that week (longer dives), which I felt was natural to me as it happened every time I had a few consecutive days of freediving.

It's on my possibilities list now (though I'm still in dobut). Amusing, never thought I'll 'overtrain' something. (just not the type. :))
 
I have sometimes seen (and done myself) blackouts/sambas where there was no obvious explanation - the amount of time/distance was not extreme, and there were no major factors such as tiredness, overtraining etc. I guess it goes to show how important it is to have a buddy.
 
michael

I'm glad to hear your ok. When i was youger and speared around 7 meters
I almost never worried about my up and down times. I would grab a couple of quick breathes and back ontop of the fish. I also relied on my feelings. If somthing don't feel right I dont do it, when diving. Recently I took up scuba diving and applied the same rules. On my advanced openwater dive I did not feel right so I called the dive. My instructor was upset, but so what!
Later It turned out I had a cold comming on. My last time out before my accident I had a off feeling about the day so I dumped my weights and went in to a couple of meters and played with the little critters :)
Later That day I realized That I had over done it with the weights that morning . Somtimes a feeling is all You have to go with, so trust it.

just my 2 cents

jim
 
My opinions:

- I have dove under the influence of carbon monoxide. It generally created a sense of being hypoxic way too early during the dive, similar to what you experienced

- The biggest other factor which could have contributed is the two FRC dives preceding the BO dive. Since the FRC dives don't accumulate hardly any CO2, the breathing pattern after them must be altered and reduced compared to what you would do following an inhale dive

- Slightly too short surface interval from the previous dive may have been a factor

However, in my mind clearly the most important symptom is the strange early feeling of hypoxia at 18m. This would generally be caused only by a few things:
1. Too short interval before, with too aggressive breathing over the last few dives (based on amount of CO2 accumulated on those dives)
OR
2. Carbon monoxide

Feeling hypoxic at 18m will likely lead to a surface problem. For that reason it was already game over. In that sense, blood pressure, hydration, diet, are all secondary, because low blood pressure would never cause a feeling of being hypoxic at 18m. BP would only change the severity of the inevitable samba/BO which would occur at the end.

If you are diving in an area where you are routinely exposed to carbon monoxide, I would recommend buying a CO detector to measure your blood CO levels. You can get one for about $150 on ebay. You inhale, hold for 30 seconds, then exhale into a ziplock bag (inside which is the detector). Then, by looking at the ppm reading, you can extrapolate your CO levels.

I used to do that until my detector was destroyed during a boat trip where the blue exhaust created such high CO that it destroyed the detector.

I did an experiment where I deliberately inhaled one or two breaths of exhaust from my car exhaust, and then took CO readings from my lungs over the next 24 hours. Even at 24 hours there was still substantial carbon monoxide in me, and I never inhaled enough CO to produce any types of symptoms like the ones you had.
 
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Eric, once again, lots of good info! :)

We probably underestimate how much CO from exhaust we are breathing. If I am in a car in heavy traffic, with exhaust fumes coming in from the car in front, and open windows with diesel fumes coming in, I will soon start to feel irritable and nauseous, and this feeling continues for a long time afterwards. Genuine motion sickness doesn't feel the same.
 
Wow, 24hours.
Thanks for the infor Eric, we are all the more wise now.

Michael, glad that you were here to share that with us. Don't let this put you off though. Life is full of learning experences. Believe me, right now I am learning how to pay a cancelation charge on an airplane ticket.
 
Thank you everyone for your support. :)
Thank you Eric for your analysis, inhaling car exhaust intentionally sounds like one of the more weird/extreme self experiments I've heard of (said with appreciation ofcourse).

efattah said:
The biggest other factor which could have contributed is the two FRC dives preceding the BO dive. Since the FRC dives don't accumulate hardly any CO2, the breathing pattern after them must be altered and reduced compared to what you would do following an inhale dive
But wouldn't the CO2 production by regenerating anaerobic energy stores after the dive will be about the same as an inhale dive? With the difference in the time of production: during the dive or after the dive...

I should defintely play more with the amount of CO2 I take down...
 
Interesting,

Even at 24 hours there was still substantial carbon monoxide in me

I was under the idea that one would get back to normal 15-20 minutes after breathing exhaust. Lucia, you've just got to learn to hold your breath all the way to the pool! :)

Adrian
 
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I sometimes hold my breath when there are fumes around, such as when there are roadworks with lots of cement dust. Recently I did this when I was walking home and I saw a dusty roadworks ahead. Unfortunately I had misjudged the distance to the dust cloud, and by the time I reached it I had already been holding my breath a while. Now there was no option but to continue to the other side, and I ran past the roadworks with contractions. Nice! :D
 
I'm glad to hear, that you are OK. So now you have an experience of this as well. Never ever should happen it again. :)
You are all right about how important it is to dive together with a buddy.
 
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You remember sea temparature?
I have no idea but my friend got near to BO last year, but it was Samba, he was in 5mm suit in 25C sea water(i am sure he was boiling in :D)
come out from deep to surface , sudenly happened!
when he came to surface his eyes was out of control, i remember very well ,
we put a point to dive and went home that day,
i asked him you remember something on the way?
He said ; i remember yesterday, not today
i never had this feeling, i really do not want,
Take Care and be Cool!
 
SEDATE said:
You remember sea temparature?
25c. Was quite comfertable for my suit (3mm) as long as I don't swim distances. I can actually get cold if I'm not moving enough.
Being too hot ruins one's dive response. Good point. :)
 
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