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My fish videos
- Thread starternaiad
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I just came across this article, about how geometric form influence navigation in both kids and goldfish.
Contact: Catherine West cwest@psychologicalscience.org
Blackwell Publishing Ltd.
New study examines how rearing environment can alter navigation
Many animals, including humans, frequently face the task of getting from one place to another. Although many navigational strategies exist, all vertebrate species readily use geometric cues; things such as walls and corners to determine direction within an enclosed space. Moreover, some species such as rats and human children are so influenced by these geometric cues that they often ignore more reliable features such as a distinctive object or colored wall.
This surprising reliance on geometry has led researchers to suggest the existence of a geometric module in the brain. However, since both humans and laboratory animals typically grow up in environments not entirely made up of right angles and straight lines, the prevalent use of geometry could reflect nurture rather than nature.
A new study published in the July issue of Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, is the first attempt to examine whether early exposure to strong geometric cues influences navigational strategy.
Alisha Brown, a psychology graduate student at the University of Alberta, raised fish in either a rectangular tank, or a circular tank free of angular information. Brown and her colleagues later trained the fish to swim to one particular corner of a rectangular-shaped test arena with either all white walls (geometric information only), or one colored wall (featural and geometric information).
Their results demonstrated that the ability to use geometry to aid navigation did not depend on exposure to angular geometry during rearing: in the featureless test arena, fish from both rectangular and circular rearing tanks used geometry to navigate. However, when features were present to help navigation, the circle-reared fish were more likely to depend on the feature even if it meant choosing a geometrically incorrect corner.
The researchers concluded that the ability to learn about geometry for navigation seems to be innate, but the use of geometric cues to navigate is determined by both nature and nurture. When reared in the absence of rectangular geometric structures, fish show a greater dependence on features for navigational guidance.
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Author Contact: Alisha Brown aabrown@ualberta.ca
Psychological Science is ranked among the top 10 general psychology journals for impact by the Institute for Scientific Information. For a copy of the article “Growing in Circles: Rearing Environment Alters Spatial Navigation in Fish” and access to other Psychological Science research findings, please contact Jesse Erwin at (202) 783-2077 or jerwin@psychologicalscience.org.
Contact: Catherine West cwest@psychologicalscience.org
Blackwell Publishing Ltd.
New study examines how rearing environment can alter navigation
Many animals, including humans, frequently face the task of getting from one place to another. Although many navigational strategies exist, all vertebrate species readily use geometric cues; things such as walls and corners to determine direction within an enclosed space. Moreover, some species such as rats and human children are so influenced by these geometric cues that they often ignore more reliable features such as a distinctive object or colored wall.
This surprising reliance on geometry has led researchers to suggest the existence of a geometric module in the brain. However, since both humans and laboratory animals typically grow up in environments not entirely made up of right angles and straight lines, the prevalent use of geometry could reflect nurture rather than nature.
A new study published in the July issue of Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, is the first attempt to examine whether early exposure to strong geometric cues influences navigational strategy.
Alisha Brown, a psychology graduate student at the University of Alberta, raised fish in either a rectangular tank, or a circular tank free of angular information. Brown and her colleagues later trained the fish to swim to one particular corner of a rectangular-shaped test arena with either all white walls (geometric information only), or one colored wall (featural and geometric information).
Their results demonstrated that the ability to use geometry to aid navigation did not depend on exposure to angular geometry during rearing: in the featureless test arena, fish from both rectangular and circular rearing tanks used geometry to navigate. However, when features were present to help navigation, the circle-reared fish were more likely to depend on the feature even if it meant choosing a geometrically incorrect corner.
The researchers concluded that the ability to learn about geometry for navigation seems to be innate, but the use of geometric cues to navigate is determined by both nature and nurture. When reared in the absence of rectangular geometric structures, fish show a greater dependence on features for navigational guidance.
###
Author Contact: Alisha Brown aabrown@ualberta.ca
Psychological Science is ranked among the top 10 general psychology journals for impact by the Institute for Scientific Information. For a copy of the article “Growing in Circles: Rearing Environment Alters Spatial Navigation in Fish” and access to other Psychological Science research findings, please contact Jesse Erwin at (202) 783-2077 or jerwin@psychologicalscience.org.
Interesting. Goldfish are amazingly good at navigation. I am sure they remember their surroundings - mine will swim around quite fast and stop just before the side of the tub, remembering the distance perfectly. I don't know how much they can see in murky water. Yesterday I tried to make an underwater video of them, but the green algae made it impossible to get a clear picture from even 10cm away. Maybe they use their lateral line to find their way around. The water is relatively clear in the morning, but then they start swimming around and chasing each other, and the algae gets stirred up. They also recognise each other - the two biggest ones chase each other a lot more than they chase the others. Maybe they can't decide which one is bigger - one is longer and the other is fatter. rofl
The Blind Cave Tetra is a fish which lives in caves where it is always dark, so it navigates using its other senses, particularly the lateral line. It remembers the layout of its surroundings.
Blind cave fish are smarter than dogs | Practical Fishkeeping magazine
I have often seen them in pet shops and display tanks. Surprisingly, in captivity they can live happily with normal species of fish, and they don't miss out on food or get bullied.
Many species of fish are surprisingly clever when it comes to avoiding getting caught. They will refuse to come out from a corner or under a stone or plant, even ignoring a net touching them, because they know that it will not get them. I have tried to get Corydoras catfish out of a tropical fish tank, and ended up stirring around the gravel, uprooting plants, and splashing water everywhere. Carp can be the same. I admit to sometimes being outwitted by something with a brain the size of a dried pea! rofl
The Blind Cave Tetra is a fish which lives in caves where it is always dark, so it navigates using its other senses, particularly the lateral line. It remembers the layout of its surroundings.
Blind cave fish are smarter than dogs | Practical Fishkeeping magazine
I have often seen them in pet shops and display tanks. Surprisingly, in captivity they can live happily with normal species of fish, and they don't miss out on food or get bullied.
Many species of fish are surprisingly clever when it comes to avoiding getting caught. They will refuse to come out from a corner or under a stone or plant, even ignoring a net touching them, because they know that it will not get them. I have tried to get Corydoras catfish out of a tropical fish tank, and ended up stirring around the gravel, uprooting plants, and splashing water everywhere. Carp can be the same. I admit to sometimes being outwitted by something with a brain the size of a dried pea! rofl
Hey Naiad,
That is fascinating. I have never really had anyone show me how to pack properly (nor do I want to learn until an expert is before me) but that action looks like what I do when I try, and what I have seen in other freediving videos.
Re your linguistic affirmations, you are quite right, BUT, sorry, here (Chile, Spanish) "carpas" in the freediving context are what we call "duck dives" in English. No idea why.
Safe dives....
It is funny how similar it looks! I have seen some freedivers who look exactly like carp when they pack.
I didn't know that. Maybe it is because carp do something similar - they are one of the few fish that I have seen swimming vertically down from the surface, often with the tail breaking the surface.
I guess animal's brains are primarily selected according to their abilities to eat, evade, rest & mate in whatever environment they inhabit. Brains are metabolically costly organs, predators typically have larger brains than herbivores.
Senses:
eyesight requires external light, eyes absorb light reflection patterns with neural networks that define images (which invert in the brain).
Some self-lit deep fish create their own light, I guess not the blind ones,
Hearing requires external sound, ears absorb acoustic reflection patterns with neural networks that distinguish frequencies etc.
Most animals create sounds by vocalizing, some by other means, some navigate by ultra-sonic reflection echolocatin.
Hearing seems to be a specialization of the lateral line pressure differentiation.
Pressure differentiation (fish lateral line, mammal hair follicle nerves)
Electric field sensation...
Irrelevant thoughts on plants compared to animals:
Can plants see? They physically/physiologically react to light (photosynthetically), with some of the same chemicals which animals have in their eyes.
Can plants touch? Some droop their leaves when touched.
Can plants hear? Their fine ground-rootlets might pick up earth tremors, leaves pick up low frequency winds, but not really analogical to vertebrate hearing.
Can plants smell? They can sense different chemicals in the air and then grow towards or away from the source.
Senses:
eyesight requires external light, eyes absorb light reflection patterns with neural networks that define images (which invert in the brain).
Some self-lit deep fish create their own light, I guess not the blind ones,
Hearing requires external sound, ears absorb acoustic reflection patterns with neural networks that distinguish frequencies etc.
Most animals create sounds by vocalizing, some by other means, some navigate by ultra-sonic reflection echolocatin.
Hearing seems to be a specialization of the lateral line pressure differentiation.
Pressure differentiation (fish lateral line, mammal hair follicle nerves)
Electric field sensation...
Irrelevant thoughts on plants compared to animals:
Can plants see? They physically/physiologically react to light (photosynthetically), with some of the same chemicals which animals have in their eyes.
Can plants touch? Some droop their leaves when touched.
Can plants hear? Their fine ground-rootlets might pick up earth tremors, leaves pick up low frequency winds, but not really analogical to vertebrate hearing.
Can plants smell? They can sense different chemicals in the air and then grow towards or away from the source.
Sorry for drifting, but most frogs, salamanders and lizards have no external nose, just nostril holes, but a few do have protruding noses, anyone know the species? I'm trying to figure out the advantage of a protruding nose for a frog or other. Some dinosaurs (actually marine reptiles like plesiosaurs) had inner and outer nostrils, I assume they allowed water into the middle passage for purpose of equalizing, though the effect may have improved vocalizing resonance for mate selection and also lightening of the skull which allowed longer necks as seen in the Ichthysaurs (really long necked aquatic dinos) .
DDeden
DDeden
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The only one I can think of is the Matamata turtle, which uses its twig-like nose as a snorkel.
Image:Matamata.JPG - Wikimedia Commons
Image:Matamata.JPG - Wikimedia Commons
Thanks. I thought I recalled a frog with a long nose, but can't recall where I saw it.
According to my research, logically, there should be no frog with a protruding nose, but nature often provides unexpected surprises due to unique niches, so I'll have to keep looking around a bit on the net. The matamata doesn't surprise me, since it perches beneath the water surface. Frogs breathe through their skin, so they have less need for a snorkel, but perhaps in estuaries or poorly oxygenated waters, a long nose would help.
Cute koi carp jigsaw puzzle
Daily Jigsaw Puzzle 2007-09-02 Koi Gulp - JigZone.com
(test to see if can post, today google & yahoo email were off here in Nor. Calif.)
Daily Jigsaw Puzzle 2007-09-02 Koi Gulp - JigZone.com
(test to see if can post, today google & yahoo email were off here in Nor. Calif.)
It took me twice as long as average! Guess I'm a little slow, but the darn computer mouse kept slipping around...excuses excuses.. got some neat beach pics too and different kinds of puzzle shapes. Something to do, since I couldn't use my email today, must be some kind of virus somewhere...
I have been doing more pond maintenance work and took home another goldfish. I put it in a large plastic box with water, to make sure it is healthy before putting it with my other fish. I soon started hearing mighty splashes, unlike anything I have heard from a normal goldfish. Each time I went to look, the fish was happily swimming around, but the water was swirling around and there were splashes around the box.
I decided to watch it to see what it was doing, and soon caught it in the act. The fish, a short-finned and heavily built goldfish of 14cm, was positioning itself in a corner, and then jumping vertically out of the water and falling back in. It was managing to get its entire length out of the water. Even more surprising, it was not swimming fast towards the corner to gather up speed, but simply jumping from a standing start.
I have never seen a goldfish doing that before. Most of them are not very good at jumping, and can only get a few cm above the surface.
Its box is now covered with netting, and if it is healthy I will put it with some other fish where it should be happier.
I decided to watch it to see what it was doing, and soon caught it in the act. The fish, a short-finned and heavily built goldfish of 14cm, was positioning itself in a corner, and then jumping vertically out of the water and falling back in. It was managing to get its entire length out of the water. Even more surprising, it was not swimming fast towards the corner to gather up speed, but simply jumping from a standing start.
I have never seen a goldfish doing that before. Most of them are not very good at jumping, and can only get a few cm above the surface.
Its box is now covered with netting, and if it is healthy I will put it with some other fish where it should be happier.
