My little freediving stragety

[superhornet59]

okay, mabye its since the day i first played grand theft auto 3. i was fascinated by the idea of "cheating". theres always got to be an easier way, shortcuts to be made, and imrovements as well. since then ive spent my life doing 2 things.

1) finding new hobbies

2) finding ways to take shortcuts in them and make the most out of it as easily as possible.

so.... back on track

i wanted to find ways to make freediving less effort. ya it takes away the essence and challenge a bit, but mostly because alot of my diving is in open water rather than competition. personaly ive searched for ways to overcome the feeling of needing air. yes you need it eventualy but why must it be so horribly unpleasant, why cant your body gently remind you its time to go up?

well in my quest ive turned to 2 things.

subliminal messaging

and hypnosis.

subliminal messaging lets you directly change the unconcious.
so ive been using subliminal messaging programs to rid me of contractions, and rid me of the urge to breath (the bad uncontrolable one, not the neutral one). ive been doing this for a few days and i hope to test it out soon.

hypnosis does the same thing, but is far more effective, except i have a "running mind" so im not sure i can realy enter that state and stay there long. so ill see if i can see a hypnotherapist but for now ill be testin subliminal.

any thoughts?

 

[Aquagenic]

Honestly, I think your psychotic and will probably die young.

You just can't take short cuts in freediving. Most other hobbies you can, and it's encouraged to find knew and better ways, but not this one. You are talking about your life here buddy, listen to your body, your urge to breath, it's the only thing keeping you alive. Your talking about disconnecting the gas gauge and taking a road trip figuring that "I know how much gas I have". You don't, although there are worse ways to kill yourself.

That being said, I'm curious to see what results you come up with (other than death). There is always room for improving any sport, and your suggestion is more intelligent than I expected. But do be careful, and surround yourself with the most knowledge and safety as humanly possible. We're not talking about a normal hobby, we're talking about your life.

Safe diving...

~JMP

 

[superhornet59]

dont worry ive taken care of the major issue here, not knowing when to come up. i still get contractions, but theyre more subtle and way easier to ignore, but when its time to come up, i feel a slight emptyness in my chest, like hunger but a bit higher up. its not extremely unpleasant, but its obvious enough to let you know. you guys are thinking ive completely gotten rid of the signal to breath, but in reality ive just made it a bit more subtle and a less of a pain in the but (common, tell me you dont wish instead of contractions and the urge you just had a feeling, one that was nor pleasant nor neutral, just enough to let you know). with the normal reflex the body makes the feeling so strong you cant take it anymore and you have to go up. my way i just feel i should be going up, but if im stupid i can decide to stay down. of course im not so i wont die. its still in the early stages and there are little bumps in the road, like sudden wierd feeling coming or contractions randomly popping out of knowhere. ill fine tune it till its about right though

ill keep you guys posted -Matt

 

[naiad]

Please be careful. I hope there is someone with you at all times when you freedive, not a lifeguard or random person but someone who is watching you at all times and knows what to do if there is a problem.

Lucia

 

[superhornet59]

oh of course, dont worry im not foolish enough to try alone. ive only done small amounts of in pool testing anyway, most of mine is dry statics just on my bed. the biggest problem i have is boredom lol, normaly contractions keep me busy but now im pretty bored. cant wait to go diving in a live environment though.

 

[Herbert]

If you want to go from one side of our planet to the other, are you digging a hole?

 

[superhornet59]

nope, besides the mantle is liquid and itll collapse. but realy i think this will work. preliminary testing is looking good, but i want to go for hypnotherapy cause the expert might be able to fine tune my "feelings" pretty well.

EDIT: the earth doesnt have sides smart guy, its a sphere

 

[DeepThought]

People use NLP in some sports, including freediving. There's an article about it on the main page.
Heard someone asking about hypnotics before, but no real answer yet.
I think those tools are wrong for you to use at this moment (well, NLP can do you good if you choose the right targets). I think your perception of freediving is still not developed enough to mess with stuff that in theory might empower your "brain" over your body in such a way, if that is indeed possible.
I think you aren't even supposed to be messing with packing (as stated in another thread). More chance you will either hurt yourself or just hurt your development as a freediver.
Some of your assumptions on which you base your ideas/wishes are totally wrong. For example:

with the normal reflex the body makes the feeling so strong you cant take it anymore and you have to go up.

Untrue. When you develop more as a freediver these things won't happen to you. I never jump up gasping for air and I don't think experienced freedivers in this forum do so.
If by developing you want your brain to react as if you are an experienced freediver while you are just starting your way you are increasing your chance to fail. No responsible freediver will consciously increase their chance to fail a dive, it's almost unheard of. Your mother might be right.

As for taking shortcuts in freediving, I can suggest a better solution, the one I practiced so far and still am. No need to take shortcuts when the road is FUN. Instead of concentrating on numbers and performance (what you see as challage), work on getting a true gain from your dives. Look at a fish instead of the watch. Look inside you instead of the depth gauge. This way ALL dives are easy. And when you dive, you improve. After sometime you will find out you are a super human who is doing exactly what he wants underwater. The better diver is the one who gains the most and stays alive.

I think brainstorming is a good process, but between idea making and implementation there should be another mechanism that weighs the benefits and the risks. I hope you posting here is a part of that mechanism.

 

[superhornet59]

of course, i came here to see what my fellow freedivers think. im not that much into competition, and i have a bit of trouble focusing. i agree i worded it wrong, its like you come up gasping for air. then again remember in the last 10 to 15 seconds (sometimes more) it goes kinda dowhill, and it feels easy. from the point you realy dont feel like you need air, thats why your not gasping. i just have a bit of a wandering mind, i cant realy focus as well as most of you guys. its not supposed to be an unfair advantage but more of a little tweak. i hope you dont think im violating the essance of the sport, im just exploring the possibilities and limitations.

i frimly stand by what i said earlier, though some of the wordin could have been more specific. as humans were flawed, and im sure there are ways to make things better. if that means freediving so be it. i bet anyone who uses that acid method looks at those of us who youse the alkaline method and see it as a shortcut. why delay them if you can pretty muhc rid them? to do the base method (which most freedivers use) you need to hyperventilate before your dive. i strongly believe thats more dangerous than my way. in mine i slowly feel it building up, like a void. with the base method you not getting much of a signal till its gettin a bit later on. at 33 feet or lower your looking at SWB. i firmly believe my way is easier and less risky, if done properly.

and ive dont quite the research on NLP. i dont realy believe you could remove the unpleasant feeling using NLP, it doesnt reach as far into the unconcious (for the subject) as other methods. its great for motivation by giving messages that you dont conciously percieve, but ive never seen it have that stong an effect, not in what ive learned. you might be able to increase certain parts of your performance, but i dont believe youd be able to "shut off" your body's CO2 sensors. if you think im wrong please say, most of my NLP work has been with social behavior councelling among my friends, i havent read to much about sport applications, but it just seems to subtle. if i am to try it should i be focusing more with the milton model or the meta model?

 

[island_sands]

oh of course, dont worry im not foolish enough to try alone. ive only done small amounts of in pool testing anyway, most of mine is dry statics just on my bed. the biggest problem i have is boredom lol, normaly contractions keep me busy but now im pretty bored. cant wait to go diving in a live environment though.

Matty
how can you be bored at your age??? rofl

God bring me back the years....

 

[superhornet59]

Man, Im DIEING of boredom. ive been finding a new hobby almost every 2 weeks and now im all out, and have no money for the ones a already know. too much time, too little money. besides stare at your cieling for 6 minutes and youll get the idea. as soon as i get a job... say buhbi to boredom, and hello to heavy spending and millions of hobbies

 

[island_sands]

Man, Im DIEING of boredom. ive been finding a new hobby almost every 2 weeks and now im all out, and have no money for the ones a already know. too much time, too little money. besides stare at your cieling for 6 minutes and youll get the idea. as soon as i get a job... say buhbi to boredom, and hello to heavy spending and millions of hobbies

hmm. is your room tidy?

 

[superhornet59]

see for yourself:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1115836/MyRoom(complete).JPG

keep in mind this was about a month ago AFTER i cleaned it. you should see it now!rofl :t

edit: pardon the wierd way it came out, its a panorama (a last minute one LOL) too bad my fins got cut off ...

 

[Fondueset]

My interest in freediving began when I took a swimming lesson at the age of about 9. Part of the lesson was to sit on the bottom near a dock in the bay and hold our breath. To me this was a magical experience. In retrospect I think it was the sense of peace, quiet and focus. At the time I had trouble swimming on the surface because I was nervous about what was underneath. I went to the deepest, darkest part of the local river and dove to the bottom. Big carp brushed by me in the nearly opaque water. To this day freediving remains an utterly non-goal oriented activity for me. Indeed part of what it's all about for me is entering into a world that is completely free of social conditioning. More than this though it is a kind of fascinating concentrated space which has a profoundly liberating effect. From the first moment I began diving this has been the case.

The way you are talking here your allready just turning it into more of the same.

 

[superhornet59]

i just cant focus as well thats all. i feel the experience, but i also feel the distraction. fine tuning everything in my life seems to be a goal. things can always be greater, why not push the limits (mabye it cause im a sagittarius but i hate limitations, mabye thats it)

 

[Fondueset]

Pushing limits is a way to of reducing the noise level by force. This is why people like to race cars, do physically demanding activities, engage in danger etc. It is a phase, however and , hopefully over time there is a refinement of attention.

Another method that works is to saturate the senses - this is part of how freediving works - and is a method for, in effect, tying down the mind by opening/equalizing the senses with the environment. In Yoga this is called Pratyhara - though this is most often not rightly understood. The edge here is to allways work toward less force and contrivance. This requires a welcoming acceptance of what is, including your self.

There are lots of other methods but the troubling thing in these posts of yours is the sense of a tremendous emphasis on will, control etc.

Really it is better if you just enter into the enjoyment of diving. Let the actual diving itself just be fun.

Maybe now you could develop a fitness regime for diving - concentrate on that, school and things you are interested in. The fitness regime will give you a venue for pushing your limits without killing yourself and extend your abilities when it comes time to go diving. Make a little structure for yourself - and just for the time you've decided - work systematically within it. Maybe just and hour - or even less - every day. It doesn't matter if your head is full of noise in the begining, or if you are not perfect - just do it and don't judge.

In the scheme of things - will and control can be helpful - but they are a quite small part of the big picture and, carried to extreme - very destructive on several levels. Sensitivity needs to develop as limits are extended - otherwise you find yourself moving along at mach2 just above the ground - with no idea that you are even moving until you hit something.

You are doing fine - just put the desire to push in a place that can handle it without danger. Boredom is quite often a signal that you are missing something that's right in front of you

 

[superhornet59]

I guess your right... but i always sucked at meditation and the sort, i just have a busy mind i guess. mabye im just not as great of a freediver as i think i am if i cant immerse myself with the surrrounding... forgive me im still younger then most of you, so im just starting to explore myself and im realy curious about what are my limitations, and i dont mean to offend anyone by takinh shortcuts or something). comeon havent you ever been asked a rude, blunt question by a little kid but forgave them cause theyre young and curious? i might be a teenager but im still curious and a kid at heart.

and why does everyone talk about "killing myself" and death. its not like what im doing is more dangerous than what your doing. i know feel just as well as anyone when to come up.

by the way the training seems to be not working! i dont know if my body is becoming immune to the subliminal but im starting to get breathing urges again, as well as contractions! i could try hypnosis, but if you guys realy think im violating the sport and taking away the essence... well i guess i shouldnt. with school and all my schedual is anything but regular, i train as often as possible, but look. i stopped training for quite a few months, trained for 3 weeks, and had to stop for another month and a half. i hate starting from square one and would like something to keep me on top of things, despite my sporiadic training. suggestions?

 

[Fondueset]

No mistake

Everybody has internal noise. You might try something like Taiji - or Yoga - you could learn the sun salutation and just make a daily practice of doing it a dozen or so times - gradually slowing down and bringing greater depth to the practice as you gain sensitivity - integrating breath, bhandas etc. etc. Meditation is not really about control - there is more a shift from the perspective of the internal dialogue - but this cannot be forced. These things should be engaged because they are fun and interesting - not to solve some problem.

theres also this - which is sort of the shaolin equivalent to the sun salutation

http://www.russbo.com/gongfu/ba_duan_jin_images.htm

Your freediving will develop just fine - I think we all just don't want to see you dive into the shallow end and hit bottom hard.

 

[jimdoe2you]

Regarding your focus, you may need to speak to a doctor. You may have a touch of ADD and/or hyperactivity.

1. Do you often jump from one uncompleted activity to another?

2. Are you detail oriented to the point of perfectionism at times?

3. Do you come up with or have so many great ideas about things, that you could never actually act on or start and complete even half of them?

4. Are you often "On the Go" or often act as if "Driven by a Motor"?

5. Do you find yourself at the age of 15, typing on a computer instead of interacting and socializing with friends or schoolmates.

OK, I added the last one in to illustrate the point. A few of the things you've mentioned in some of your past posts give insight to a bit of an inabilty to focus.

Something to think about.

 

[DeepThought]

Hey Matt, it is not about you "violating the essence of the sport" or the black magic that might ruin the competition that we're thinking about . We are just cautioning you that your way of approaching this might be dangerous.