Neck weight for No Fins in the pool

[xbuster]

I've tried today a neck weight that I've made from a bicycle tube and lead balls 200 grams each.
Tried various weight without any success
I've found that it takes me more strokes for 25 meters pool then when not using any neck weight at all!

What I'm doing wrong here?
You can see my technique here:

Any comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Azrael3000]

Your head is pointing down and so are your arms. So you are generating a lot of resistance.

First thing to do: Get your neckweight fixed. It's quite simple. Put on your neckweight and push off from the pool wall, don't do any breaststroke movements. Have a buddy that tells you whether you are completely straightened out. If you sink, it's too much weight, so reduce it. If you float to the surface it's not enough. Depending on whether or not you wear a suit you might need some weight on the hips as well. Make sure that the neck and hip weights are balanced so that you can fly straight through the water. Of course if you have an experienced freediver around he will make this process a lot easier.

Once you have done that you can start working on technique. Watch a few videos of people doing DNF on youtube, talk with experienced people and simply do some 25m swims where you totally focus on being as efficient as possible, trying out different things.

And just in case you have not done any course yet, that's the very very first thing to do.

 

[xbuster]

Thank you. I think I figured out the main issue - when I'm using neck weight my legs sink. I've 10% fat in my body. I've read that I've to use thin neoprene pants to achieve good body position. What you think?

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[Azrael3000]

If your legs sink, then thin neoprene pants are definitely a good option. The final goal is always to move as straight as possible while the body is as straight as possible. It takes a couple of sessions in the pool to get it right if you can't change your weight on the fly, but once you have your configuration it'll last you and you'll discover a completely new quality in your diving. Just gliding along without effort and thinking about correcting your depth.

 

[John B Griffith Jr]

The test is to do the drill with the neck-weight and not swimming forward with the outfit you would wear in training/competition. So, if you are going to train in a swimsuit, use that. You want to get your position in the water horizontal, raise your head up, have your buddy check to see if you are keeping a stationary position in the water column (up and down). After I posted a question about neck-weight use, I got a lot of advice and made three...3, 5 and 7 pounds to accommodate different thicknesses of wet suits. Also try it with and without a weight belt...see how that changes your positioning. You should glide with ease in a natural, horizontal position. Good luck!

 

[xbuster]

Thank you all for your advices. I'll definitely try it.

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[baiyoke]

Just to elaborate on the good posts above - or more precisely extract some points:

- The lung area is the center buoyancy point that lifts you.
- You need to find your OVERALL need for weigts to counter buoyancy at a certain depth - fx 5kg at 1m.
- Your OVERALL need for weight will keep you neutral at a certain depth - fx 1 meter - and is specific to that.
- You need to DISTRIBUTE this weigth (overall weight) in two areas on each side of lungs - to balance your body length
- "Neck" and "Hip-Area" are good points - fx 4kg neckweight/1kg hipweight.

TIPS:
- More weight around your neck will of course lower your front - but also RAISE your legs...
- The depth changes the buoancy, so keep your depth constant.
- Your arm movements might change the balance slightly (if your arms are not neutral). Never mind this in the beginning.

Before everything else find your overall need for weight and see if a heavy front distribution (the neckweight) will raise your legs enough

 

[baiyoke]

Thank you. I think I figured out the main issue - when I'm using neck weight my legs sink. I've 10% fat in my body. I've read that I've to use thin neoprene pants to achieve good body position. What you think?

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Almost forgot to comment on this: It cannot be that a neckweight makes your legs sink. It can make your body sink, but it will raise the legs relatively. So a neckweight will HELP if your legs are (too) heavy... A suit can also help.

Look at this piture (wich by coincidence shows it, and also have 5 bloks/"kilos") where you see the forces aplied to the torso+neck... Lungs in the middle, left is the lower back, and right is the neckweight. Adding weight in front raises the legs...

 

[xbuster]

I think the human body is different in this case. My legs just sink. I'll try to use thin neoprene pants and then to use the neck weight to make myself as horizontal as possible.

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[baiyoke]

No the human body is not different in respect to the forces that interact on it, it is excactly like the picture above. And if you want to understand the system, the above is the way to go.

But of course if you legs sink - they sink. But not because of the neckweight.

If you have found your overall weight at your chosen depth, and your legs still sink when all that weight is in the front/on the neckweight, yes then you need something bouyant, and yes you need a wetsuit.

When you go without a wetsuit, and if you have a "heavy" body in water (low on fat percentage) - the legs can sink because of that. And neoprene is the solution.

So there's no mystery.

 

[J Campbell]

If you have heavy legs and don't want to wear a wetsuit try water skiers spray guards. These are made of neoprene and fit over your lower leg - they are meant to prevent bruises from high speed water spray - but they will also give your legs buoyancy.

https://www.wileyski.com/shopproductdetail.asp?prodID=3844&catid=52

 

[John B Griffith Jr]

As an aside to this thread, there are a lot of manufacturers who make Triathlon suits and distance swimming suits with "lift" panels in the torso...it would be interesting to know if any of the speed suit manufacturers have ever considered lift panels in the lower extremities...many runners have little body fat and may benefit from a little lift in the lower body. I'm fat, so it's of no use to me, but something to ponder on.

 

[xbuster]

Even when I lie on the water surface my legs sink.

Mark Jeffery thanks for the suggestion. I've thought about this too and found this on EBay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271926427835?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

This is not 100% neoprene.

I've found also cheap neoprene pants: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151766837826?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=450964290124&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

What should I choose?

 

[baiyoke]

Even when I lie on the water surface my legs sink.

So does mine and many/most other mens legs...

Xbuster I've tried to explain a straight forward allmost bulletproof way of figuring out how to go around this, and so has John and Azrael. But it's like you don't want to understand how to figure it out. Puzzling...!?!

 

[J Campbell]

@xbuster
Ahhh, floating legs. I remember being a child at summer camp being taught to float on our backs. I simply could not do it because my legs pulled down and made me vertical. My instructor scolded me because I was "not doing it right" - so unfair! My legs still sink to this day.
Another thing to consider is that fiberglass fins are heavier than water and will only further drag your legs down.

I never wore neoprene shorts but I'm thinking that they will only serve to make your hips float - your lower legs will still be heavy.
As for using the the skiers leg guard - it's just an idea I had but never tried . So I will pull my old leg guard out of storage and give it a try the next time I get in the the water - may be a few days. I will report back the results - stay tuned.

 

[xbuster]

I've received water skiers spray guards (neoprene) and made an neck weight. Those neoprene "socks" did help. You can see in the videos:




With fins - maybe they make my legs float enough even without the "socks". I'll try it.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome!

P.S. This is 33 meter pool.

 

[Azrael3000]

Is the pool getting deeper on one side? Because it appears that your weighting is correct when you are in the deep side and thus dive deeper. Once you get closer to the surface you start floating up. So you will need to learn to always swim at the same distance from the surface, even if the floor isn't flat. Even just 10 cm can make a big difference at that depth.

Finally, for DYN you obviously need to take the buoyancy of the fins into account.

 

[J Campbell]

I'd say with the fins you should remove the skiers guards - your legs do appear to float up.

 

[xbuster]

Thanks guys for your help! Any comments on the technique?

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