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Need ANY techniques.....

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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PunkerTFC

New Member
Jul 16, 2001
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ok, I've gathered lots of info (sort-of) on free-diving. And, I can get a maximum static (or swimming on the bottom of the pool) of 43 seconds . But this is only using hyper-ventilation before I dive, no yoga, meditation, or any thing like that. the reason that I don't use these techniques is that I don't KNOW THEM! I haven't really been able to find very much information on those subjects. I do have a nice mask and snorkel (these work great, and the mask is very easy to equalize with). I will be getting some dive weights and some freedive fins once I get some more cash (I'm 15, not much income). I know, I know, buy Freedive! I will, but I just need some techniques that I can use now. Please send your replies to my email address:
[email protected]

Thank You!!
 

jero

New Member
Jul 20, 2001
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Hi PunkerTFC!

First, don't do hiperventilation before going under water. It can be very dangerous.
The key of safe and good dive is relaxation. You just have to relax yourself before dive. No matter how long it takes.
There is a breathing technique that I use and it is derived directly from Pranayama, but someone will have to show it to you, not just tell you how to do it. Try to take some Hatha Yoga classes.
But, to start you off, try breathing so that you put your abdomen out first, thus filling your lower part of lungs with air, then breath with your chest. Try to do it as a single "wave like" motion.
That is a start.
Remember, relax & enjoy
 

DanDaMan

New Member
Jul 18, 2001
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be careful with hyperventilatio, i have heard it can be dangerous. also i am 16 so i know the money thing. the best technique i have used is a slow deep breath and a full exhale, repeatedly. then i just relax, and go under with a full breath i just started and in one week iam up to 120 seconds, that is about a 30 second increase in one week. keep working at it and relax in the water.
 

PunkerTFC

New Member
Jul 16, 2001
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Thank you! I will stop with the hyper-ventilation. It's probablly a good thing that I got that warning. And by the way, my time has increased too, I broke through a minute yesterday! my max time was 1:12, but that was kind of cheating, because I took a coat hanger, put the hook thorugh the pool drain, and held on to the coat hanger. So I don't really consider that my max time, because that was with no effort at all. But my max time WITH the coat hanger was 1:05! yay! It's so awesome to be able to stay under that long. I will try with the "belly-up" breathing, and try to stay more relaxed. For some reason, whenever I try to breath really deeply, my relaxation goes kaput! so I'll see how I do today in the pool. Does anyone else have any other tips or techniques?
 

jero

New Member
Jul 20, 2001
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static in the pool

Yo Punker!

Let me tell you something about static in the pool. It is suposed to be done with no effort! The thing is that you put on your suit on and then just float facing down. That is how it is done. There are several ways to prepair yourself for tha pool static.. I myself use a snorkel all the time, so I can relax every muscle in my body before throwing away the snorkel and begin with "floating" static. So, static apnea is done on the surface floating and facing down, not on the bottom of the pool.;)
 

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
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An interesting benefit

Hey guys - just got back from a beautiful weekend retreat with my wife to the Oregon Coast. Got a chance to do a little diving at one of the coastal lakes as well. Was nice to dive in my 3mm suit for once ;)

Well, back to the topic at hand...

I have found that after doing my lap swimming (either fin = 1 mile, or regular = 3/4 mile) that after my recovery, I can immediately do a 90 second static breath hold in the pool. I give myself another 3 minutes recovery from that, I am up to 2 minutes, 15 seconds. Maybe someone else can elaborate, but I seem to be able to do better static apnea after working out than I can if I try for it alone. I do admit that my longest so far has only been 3 minutes in the pool, but I haven't really been training for it as much as dynamic apnea.

Any thoughts on this?
 

Angus

New Member
Apr 2, 2001
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Metabolic oxygen

Dear Cliff, Glad to hear that you had a nice time on the coast with your family. In response to your question :

I have found that after doing my lap swimming (either fin = 1 mile, or regular = 3/4 mile) that after my recovery, I can immediately do a 90 second static breath hold in the pool. I give myself another 3 minutes recovery from that, I am up to 2 minutes, 15 seconds. Maybe someone else can elaborate, but I seem to be able to do better static apnea after working out than I can if I try for it alone. I do admit that my longest so far has only been 3 minutes in the pool, but I haven't really been training for it as much as dynamic apnea.

This is part of how we have evolved as an animal. Humans are not the fastest or the strongest but we can run any other animal to exhaustion. The same isn't true for swimming but our bodies don't know that. As part of our survival package is the ability for great endurance while still being able for that burst of speed (or aggression) at any point. That burst or sprint takes oxygen and if we have used it as fast as we consumed it it has to come from somewhere else.

The reason why we can sometimes to do better after exercising is because of the release of metabolic oxygen, the oxygen that is usually tied up in our muscle tissues and some is even released from other physiological functions that are not crucial at the moment. As the body fatiques it starts using other stores which is what occurs during the first part of your lap swimming. After depleting everything our body starts releasing the oxygen in our muscles; which is what we refer to as our second wind. As we continue to exercise at a steady rate our gas exchange cycle increases - we get oxygen in and express CO2 more efficiently - which allows us to start replenishing our metabolic reserves. If we didn't we would very quickly lose the ability to continue as we would be in an anaerobic condition and lactosis would eventual cause muscle failure.

But in aerobic conditioning we are replacing our metabolic stores at least as fast as we deplete them. If we don't train to exhaustion our metabolic reserves are immediately available for the "sprint." If you were to try a static apnea after sprinting a mere fraction of what you swim for endurance training it would very brief and painful (which is not to imply that this does not have training value; it will help increase CO2 tolerances - but :yack) Your static times will be shorter prior to or early on in getting your second wind than they will be later in your session. Cool uh? Hope this helps, Angus
 
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jero

New Member
Jul 20, 2001
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Hello everyone!

Since I do static apnea for a long period of time I must add that the training in the pool should look like this: First you do static apnea, second dynamic apnea and then swimming (with or without fins). Not all of this I do in a single practice. These days I am only working on my static. That is all I do for a hour and a half, and I get to do 3 statics. The rest of the time I relax.
So, I am saying once again, the key of good static is relaxing, slowering your metabolism... Don't hasitate to relax 15 minutes or more if you have to. Try to fall asleep in the pool :)...

Of course that aerobic training is very important for this sport, but I wouldn't do it right before my static. Sometimes I do some of the Yoga Asanas, but then I relax for 15-20 minutes and get 5' 10'' in the first try.

But, I must add that we're not all a like... My suggestion is to try to relax for 15 minutes and see how that works...
:)
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
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Pool

I'm glad to hear about young guys being interested in freediving; maybe one of you will be the person that breaks the 100 metre constant ballast record in my lifetime!
It must be said that many freediver deaths (not including spearos) happen in a pool without a spotter. Make sure you've got a partner watching you, the lifeguard doesn't count.
Try this: inhale for 2 to 4 seconds, hold for 2 to 4 seconds, and exhale for 4 to 8 seconds. Do this for 2 minutes, then take 5 quick full breaths. Inhale as much as you can, and RELAX. Hold until you get a strong urge to breathe, then let it go. Breathe up again for 2 minutes, and repeat. On you 3rd or 4th attempt, you will do much better than the first and second attempt. After my third breath hold, I breathe up for 5 minutes, and go for the final attempt.
Good luck, be safe, and let us know what happens,
Cheers,
Erik Young
ps, it's easier and safer to practice static at home, on the couch, then try in the pool with your partner.;)
 

mackdiver

New Member
Jul 30, 2001
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all this sounds like good information..i am also in search of holding my breath longer. Righ now I can swim 1:15 under water but when I just try and hold my breath ont eh botom the max i keep on getting is about 45 sec. I think this must be from relaxation. Any good techniques? What do you think about when you on the bottom. i am training in a pool that is 20ft deep and 90 feet long. When I did the swim underwater I also did it on the bottom. thanks for your help.
 

snorklebum

New Member
Aug 21, 2001
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It does seem weird to be able to swim longer on a breath than to just sit statically.
I would think that it is focus or goal activity that explains it. Just doing something takes your mind off the fact that you need air. There is a BIG psychological component in craving to breathe.
Probably just sitting and waiting makes you give in sooner, like just sitting around waiting for dinner makes you hungrier than if you are out playing basketball. Panic makes you feel short of oxygen, too. Which kicks up your heartbeat and actually makes you use more oxygen.
You might try an experiment of activity while static, like screwing and unscrewing a bolt or something, see if your static time increases. On the otherhand, what is static downtime GOOD for?
 

Alex Lasmar

New Member
Sep 17, 2001
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train

Hi, although I have been diving for 10 years, just now I am trainning to improve my free diving time/depth.
I have heard of some trainning programs and I am starting today with the following:

5 days/week - 1 hr/day
2 days in the pool, 1hr dynamic and static apnea
3 days aerobic exercise (running 6 to 7 km).
I am just not sure if I should have more trainning in the pool instead of aerobic (change the days)

Any idea is more than wellcome.

No hiperventilationa at all. My friend almost died during a spearfishing trip. His brother saw him going back to the botton and was able to get him in time.
 

Pekka

neoprene dreamer
Aug 22, 2001
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Alex

I have read these forums some time and they I think have the answer for the question you are asking, Is your performance as a diver directly connected to your condition? Well it surely requires good health, but the psychological aspect is one of the most important part of freediveing, does your mind accept the fact that you go underwater for 2min to a 50meters? mine dosen't......yet :)
And technique...well there is just the other big part of freediveing, I made my new record in constant wight and it got better almost 10meters after learning some new techniques:p
So do some more pool training and get someone to teach some technique.. I need some teaching you can go only so far selfeducating your self..
feel free to disagree;)
and check the thread "longer bottom time"
 

thin_air

Alphabet
Sep 15, 2001
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well im happy to see im not the only teen in this forum, i am also 15

so anyway i see many people are in the same position as me

first off i want to thank all the ppl that have givin me tips in this past week i now have beaten the 3 min. mark for dry static apnea
which is a pb for me my previous pb was 2:05

in one week i got that far WOW!!!!!

oh well if theres anyone in ontario

oh and practice often and even during boring classes at school:naughty thats usually when i get my best times

oh well im out

vince
 

CCtrader

New Member
Jul 10, 2003
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Most of the guys that dive with me hyperventilate.

What they normally do, is in the diving (Spearfishing) day, when they got up out of bed, they sit on a chair and start to hyperventilate until they get dizzy. Then they pick the number of hyperventilations and divide it by 3. The result will be the safe zone.

So if they get to the 21 hyperventilations until get dizzy, they will use the 7 hyperventilations number when diving. Don't know if it's correct to do this, i personally don't use it.

My friend told me that they learn this on the Pelizari course...

As i said, i don't need to this...
 

azapa

51% freediver 49% spearo
Jan 31, 2007
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ahhah, indeed!

oh, and don't hyperventilate. Just breathe naturally, as though you would whilst watching TV. after 2 or 3 mins breathing naturally, I like to do two good purges (ok, like hyperventilation breaths) wait for 10 to 30 seconds for my heart to slow down, then a full inhalation and GO!

t\here are tons of threads on this, read up!
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
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Hi Alex Lasmar,

It sounds like a nice training mix.

Make sure you eat, drink and sleep enough, and quality mineral rich food.

Add a strength session, and work also on the counter muscles.

You can also add stretching to your routines, because you want long flexible muscles, diaphragm, chest etc.

You can add coordination and concentration exercises too.


Beginning Freedivers:

To all those exited new starters, find a buddy!
Apart that sharing your discoveries and victories gives double the fun, and a buddy's observation can be so helpful, your buddy is lifesaving!
The pool's lifeguard has to pay attention to everybody, and not only you. In the pools where I train a BO - even with buddy - It would mean permanent ban on underwater swimming for me and others!

To learn the fastest way is to do a freediving course, not only you learn every thing to be a capable lifesaving buddy but also a boatload of techniques to double your abilities almost instantly, and the best directions to grow further when you're back with your buddy in your pool.
Doing a course will safe you at least a year or two learning the ropes on your own, so effectively it has great value for the time and money invested.

Now on to some simple for advice beginners starting.

Breath-up:

Dynamic: Just stand and relax, let your heart rate slow down by breathing slowly in a rhythm of your sleep, 5 seconds in, 5 out, gently from the belly moving in the easy 30-70% empty-full range. When you're relax, breath out deep followed the inhale started from the lower belly, upper, chest, throat, and go.

Static: when you have a suit that is not to stiff and tight use it and float on you back breathing the Eric suggested rhythm, 2-4 in, 2-4 hold, 4-8 exhale, or the easier, gentle 5 in 5 out belly breathing. Your body has with this pace a sleeping association that helps you to relax all those hundreds of muscles you have and can relax. Apart from Eric's little bit more complicated fine routine I just have beginners try the simple same to dynamic breath-up. After the full inhale you can roll over just by bringing one arm over the opposite shoulder.


Dynamic technique:

In general there are a few things you aim and look for:

Efficient stroke,
Good Hydrodynamics,
Learning the signs and sensations of your body.

In Dynamic No fins Efficient stroke means that you have a glidestroke where you'll execute your arm and leg stroke separately, with a glide moment in between.
With bi fins you want to have a fluid stroke with not to much amplitude and power but with a nice rhythm you can do for a long time.
Monofins are very cool to have and use, but something to start with a little later when you've mastered the freediving basics. Monofins require a good back flexibility, and strong belly and back and upper leg muscles, coordination and shoulder flexibility. They are great fun and the speed and the feeling is very addictive. Also the fin surely attracts many other people to try our passion of freediving!

Hydrodynamics are a great way to save energy.
The way you go through the water is dependent partly on you flexibilty, but also how deep you breath in, how deep you swim and how your weights are distributed.
Many people use a home made neck weight, the how to guides can be found on this forum. It's great fun to make your own tools.

Learning the signs sensations of your body is essential.
You want to learn what's going on in your body, what your warning bells and whistles are. For some people it is a clear signal, like loosing count of the number of swim strokes or a number of contractions. For others it's much harder. Important to realise is that feelings and sensation can greatly vary because of many factors like: exhaustion, stress, hydration, food, breath-up. A very good reason to have a capable rescue buddy! Following a course you'll learn in good detail what is going on in your body, what signs to pay attention to, and in a safe situation with experts to explore and remember the sensations of your limits.


Static Technique:

The goal is learn how to relax and safe energy and what sensations and signs there are.

Like Jero said, pre static relaxation is important.
I like to add to this a mild warm and stretch of the main big muscle groups.
In my 7 years experience I now hold the view that one goes through different phases, preparation techniques before reaching their peak. Personally I like variation, though routine is often very effective.

For starters I like them not to push it.
In my view one should focus on learning how to relax first.
Static is for a small part physical and very big part mental.

In a life of stress and pressure relaxing is often such a new experience that needs time to be learned. When I coach and buddy my friends, I do it usually in the following way.
First I let the diver find some relaxation on his own, I closely observe to see their body relaxing, and slowly speaking in a low voice I suggest muscles and places to relax. Usually the stress is accumulated in between the neck and shoulder blades. While doing this I grab slowly different body parts and gently move them, this helps for the diver to find and recognise the strained and stiff parts. For instance many times a arm feels relaxed to the diver, but in fact is locked up by unnoticed muscle tension.

When you get some grips on the muscle relaxation, your times will steady climb, and the mental aspects gradually come in.
Similar to when you go sleep, things stored on your memory shelf will come to the forefront and ask your processing. This weighing and choosing takes a lot of energy, so what you can do is simply recognise the thought, say it's ok and let it go. Having a distraction or mild focus also helps from racing thoughts.

Thinking about time is great way to stress yourself out, so don't, instead focus on the art of relaxing.

You hear, as a diver doing static you've got plenty to do!

When you don't have a reliable capable dive buddy don't do static in the pool. Do it at home in bed or on the couch. Generally in the morning is a good time.


Gotta go sleep, have been training hard today, getting back in shape for our national championships defending my title.

Have fun, go slow, and have many small personal bests.
It's a interesting journey, a helix sport that can give you so much more than just cool numbers!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars
 
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Mullins

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2004
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Kars, cool post but Alex's last activity on this site was about 6 years ago!
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
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I hope that some other beginners will read up on it, finding it through the search function :)

Thanks, Dave!

Kars
 
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