New concept for speargun

[efattah]

My goal of catching halibut at the Telegraph 2007 trip has prompted me to start trying to solve the problem of how to actually deal with the size of the fish on a very deep breath hold dive.

After some deliberation, I decided that none of the existing polespear or gun methodologies is ideal. I don't like the concept of a reel, too many problems, including:
1. Possibility of entanglement
2. Reluctance to drop the gun in case of emergency
3. Hindered ascent from deep depth

A pole spear is also clearly non viable.

I came up with what I think is a new idea (certainly I've never heard of it before).

The gun in question would be quite small. It would not have a reel. However, the gun is loaded with a detachable CO2 cartridge and a collapsed balloon.

If you fire and miss, the CO2 cartridge and balloon remain on the butt of the gun. The gun is then reloaded as normal.

If you fire and hit the fish, you press a button on the butt of the gun, which causes the CO2 cartridge to begin inflating the balloon, and simultaneously detaches both the cartridge and the balloon -- which remain attached to the spear, which is inside the fish.

At this point, the hunter is no longer connected to the fish. He can ascend in total freedom, not worrying about losing his gun, not hindered or endangered by a line.

In the meantime, the fish is in dire straights. With a huge balloon connected to it, it will be forced to the surface in short order.

The diver reaches the surface and keeps a look out. Soon, the bright float appears, possibly moving around the surface. This signals the fish. The diver then swims to the float and grabs its short line and kills the fish.

He then reloads his gun with another CO2 cartridge and balloon, from his float.

What do you think? I want some feedback. I haven't thought through the details in any depth.
- Possible problems?
- Feasibility?
- Ideas for type of CO2 cartridge/balloon as well as mechanism to activate and detach them, and mechanism to connect the spearline to the balloon?
- Band or pneumatic to propel the spear itself?

 

[deep thinker]

Ok this actually sounds like an awesome idea that could well work, firstly I dont know halibut very well but from what I understand they could be hole dwellers as well as deep fish, this mite be a problem if the fish holes up before the ballon is inflated to a level where it will actually pull up the fish, the angle between the ballon going straight up and the fish in hole wont be able to get it out youd have to dive back down to get both spear and fish or youll find just your spear floating up to the surface cause the fish pulled out but a speedy inflation will probably solve this.
Feasibility will depend probably on how often you use it and how many fish you shoot in a day using the baloon, I think it would have to be a pretty big setup to lift such powerfull fish off the bottom?
Your balloon and CO2 cartridge could be attached to the side of your gun with a slip tip setup and double release on the spear line, so say you shoot and miss nothing happens but when you hit your fish it can either pull the catridge and ballon out of its fixing mechanism using the power of the fish itself and as it pulls the cartridge out set of the inflation of the ballon or have a manual release where the cartridge also inflates once released in this way.
For gun choice Id say probably go for pneumatic as youd want the punch power of a bigger gun but a shorter version...
You mite want to speak to a engineer or something about the possibility of the cartridge release and housing as this will possibly be quite advanced work...
Keep us posted on any designs and progress you make

 

[Marwan]

Eric, my only advice is that when you shoo a fish you dont want to then press a button or do anything else but ascend, especially if you are shooting at depth... i feel that its a good idea in theory but maybe a bit complex to implement...also CO2 has been banned for fishing in several countries, make sure its legal where you live....
I would recommend the following setup instead...use a good pneumatic gun like the maorisub MAMBA, (size will depend on vizibility), it has a dry barrel so wont loose power with depth... and you attach it to a float in a "breakaway" setup.... basically the spear is not attached to the gun but to a float on the surface, all you have to do is shoot and then ascend safely to retrieve your fish... much more effective than a reel when you hunt bigger fish.... I have no experience with halibut, so i dont know why you ar set on a co2 short gun...i gave you advice on the most powerful gun that doesnt loose power at depth, i dont know if a band gun would also work or not on Halibut....my main piece of advice would be to keep it safe and simple, shoot and acsend...
cheers

 

[Old Man Dave]

In Carlos Eyles fantastic book "Last of the Blue Water Hunters" he mentions the use of "Poppers" - self inflating CO2 floats used when hunting the giant (400lbs+) black sea bass. Doesn't give details and the hunting of these fish is now banned but maybe the California boys still know how it's done and they have halibut down there as well.

Otherwise standard options are breakaway head or slip tip spear connected to a surface bouy not the gun or spearline to a a reel on the gun or a spearline to the gun and a rope from gun to surface bouy or some variation of these set ups. Some of the top Frenchies used reels attached to their belts or harness and in the event of spearing a big or holed up fish they clip the line from the reel to the gun and let go the gun paying out line as they surface.

I'm a bit of a flatty diver myself but we don't have halibut and so our biggest flatfish only go to 20lb although we have bigger ray.

Dave

 

[Bill]

The method Dave talks about worked OK for fish over 250 kilos. Two poppers, reel and 60 meters of line attached to the gun. With a good shot the fish won't go far and the poppers will tell you where. With a bad shot you could lose everything. There was also a line pack and popper rig that detached from the gun. Unwieldy for free diving.
After ten years of halibut shooting (only one over 20 kilos and all less than 15 meters deep) we developed a simple rig. A 100cm rubber gun, a few meters of shooting line and a 9mm shaft with a heavy duty 5 prong head. Any hit above the eyes or in the spine and you have lots of time to get a good hold of him, if not, the 5 prong holds well, he doesn't go far and there is a gun pointing at him.
One problem we had was with fish on a hard bottom. The spear tip didn't penetrate far enough to toggle. Visibility and currents may be a problem in BC too.
I don't know how big you're planning to tackle. When I visited Campbell River in '52 they had a newspaper clip of a halibut that was 250-300 kilos. In that case a 12 guage power head would be my choice of weapons.
Aloha
Bill

 

[Pastor]

What sort of gas volume is possible from those cartridges? (at the surface before anyone goes off on one)

 

[richiedubya]

I think that it sounds like a good idea. my only suggestion would be for the balloon to be replaced with a compressed air dsmb this means that it can be used again with out having to replace the whole unit. this could be cheaper in the long run.

 

[Metridium]

Eric,

Would be good to know how deep is "very deep", what bottom topography, and how big a halibut you are planning for.

A potential problem with the ballon lift would be the uncontrolled pulling and leverage it provides the fish during ascent. This might be OK for a thick bodied fish, but pound for pound halibut are a thin bodied fish and strong fighters. The ballon just gives the fish something substantial to leverage against, go ballistic, and doesn't provide you with the control needed to play the fish.

Often, once a halibut is shot, if you do not pull on the line the halibut will settle back to the bottom and stay quiet. I have had some halibut and rays not even move after being shot, and not because I stoned them. They're still hiding! A careful, played retreival from the surface, or diving on the fish a 2nd time for the bottom kill, will probably land more halibut than trying to horse it in.

A float line attached to the end of the shooting line/shaft/slip-tip, that fully separates from the gun stock, is one of the most common setups used for many years here in Calif. to land large fish with comparative safety. I've seen float lines of 150 ft. and think you could go longer. You can place a short bungie line section at the deep end to further absorb the pulls from the fish and reduce potential for tear out.

You could also use the bungie line with the ballon if you stick with your idea.

I don't like the idea of a reel for large fish either. A shorter than blue water gun makes sense for halibut too.

Be sure to tell us how the hunt goes.

David

 

[dave]

A 45g co2 cartridge will give about 23l of free co2 at the surface, so approx 23kg of lift. At 40m this is 4.6kg of lift. I think its a non starter.
In the 1954 book "Modern Spearfishing" Vane Ivanovic talks about using a similiar system and mentions it not working at depth
Whats wrong with using a floatline? Its simple, easy and well proven
cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

 

[andysodyssey]

[Hi , there is only one problem with the balloon, as the fish dives deeper or you deploy the balloon at dept the gas in the balloon will be compressed and have less bouyancy ,you could use a float line and a breakaway rig I have used them in the past and they work well on large fish , use a buoy of high density foam so it will not be crushed at dept, as for the inflation system you could use a bike inflation device , they use a small cylinder that can be replaced or you could use the inflation system of one of those self inflating life jackets , I am sure they would be easy to adapt and and not too expensive but personally I do not think that it is worth the hassle as a breakaway rig is much more effective. ANDREW

 

[olliric]

Hello Eric,
Good to see that the spearfishing bug is catching up with you. Knowing you, I am not surprised that you want to invent something new about spearfishing.
You idea may work well if you decide to go "industrial" halibut fishing with a support boat and all the works.
If you want to do it as a sport as I would imagine, the break away tip connected to a suitable float and line it's the best solution in my view. You dive on the halibut, shoot it in the head close range and swim back to the surface with the gun. The float will safely do the work for you; nice, simple and cheap. If you don't want to tire yourself horsing the fish up, breath up and pull your self down along the line grab onto the spear and stab it in the brain with a stiletto knife. It will eliminate the stress on the fish and also improved the quality of the flesh.
As for the gun, ballistic performance is not that important. Flat fish don't run away and allow you to shoot very close range. I would say 70 cm pneumatic is plenty or 90 rubber bands.
If you do want to go halibut fishing don't forget to call me. I have got all the gear and if I am in town I'll be happy go for it. I would love to catch halibut and stock up my fridge. I love that flesh.
Cheers
Giovanni

 

[Seacidal]

I would agree that a slip-tip with float line (perhaps bungie) and float would likely be a preferred rig for big halibut. However, I've found that they aren't always settled down on the bottom, particularly in shallower depths. I've encountered a number of large fish that are passing through like fighter jets, eating whatever they encounter in their paths. One would benefit from a powerful gun with a stout shaft to provide the punch necessary to reach out and put the touch on one of these bad boys. Then, make sure you stay clear of the line, and hang on.
Hopefully, I'll be able to give you a report before long on how well this works out. Good luck and safe diving to all.
Chip

 

[dr.ed]

Why not use an inflatable life jacket with a loop through the neck connected to your slip-tip or shaft -slip-tip? And bungie/rubberr band to speargun. Connect a line to life jacket trigger for auto deploy or pull'er yoself??