New DWF PB and video critique wanted!

[Merlin]

I reached a new PB of 83m tonight, I am aiming to reach 100m in the next 8 weeks. But I would greatly appreciate if you guys could give me a critique of my monofining technique. The video only shows about 45m because I ran out of memory on my camera. Two problems I can see now is that my knees are bending too much and I think I am swimming a bit slow (around 35-37 sec per 50m). The pool is a 50m and oh yeah the end of pool turn was a disaster too bad (or good :hmm ) that it didn't show up.

Monofining Video Critique (right click save as)

Many thanks!
Irian

 

[commonerg]

Way to go on the new PB Irian! Sorry I couldn't have been there for it. We should work on our turns sometime. One turn after another until they are smooth. I think a little practice would save us a lot of energy on the walls. Perhaps next week.

 

[Vlado]

Congratulations Irian on your new PB! I think if you improve your style you will be at 100 in no time. You are right about your knee bending, it creates too much drag and less effective propulsion. If you fix that you will gain increase in speed that you mention too. Second, you should stretch your arms more and further above your head. And third, no looking at the end of the pool! That only slows you down. You have marks on the bottom to follow.

Keep us updated of your progress. Good Luck!

 

[jome]

I think I am swimming a bit slow (around 35-37 sec per 50m).

Personally I think that is way too fast! But there are different styles and schools...Some prefer slower, some faster. But even for the "fast school" that's not slow at all...The slower people generally go 1 m/s or even less...It seems to me you're kicking like crazy. Allow your self to glide a little more in between kicks ...But still, impressive. Keep working at it.

For a completely opposite style you might take a look at this video. Not a world record or anything, but still impressive...That must be the slowest monofin dynamic I've seen (with bi-fins people seem to generally favor the slow approach)

 

[Merlin]

Appreciate the comments guys!

Vlado, will work on all your points! I have been doing a lot of shoulder and back stretches lately because weight lifting has left me with a great lack of flexibility there. I have developed this instinct to look up when getting there because the wall is sort of weird and you can actually swim under it if you are swimming too deep, so I'll try to swim shallower (the pool is 11ft deep by the way).

jome, thanks for that video that looks very graceful. I was discussing the same thing with Greg (commonerg) yesterday. It seems that some people prefer the slow paced leading with their hands technique and others the fast paced leading with your head technique while keeping your hands straight forward all the time as an anchor like Peter Pedersen (who did the 50m in around 30sec in his 200m WR ). I have tried different paces and my dynamic seems to be limited by time not so much by physical effort. I can swim for approximately 1 minute whether I am swimming slower or faster (as long as I am not truly going "all out"). But I definitely agree I am kicking way too much and not gliding enough which is probably due to bending the knees too much. I think I will keep video recording myself swimming until I get it right. My theory is that if I can get my technique smoother to do the 50m in ~30 seconds I should be able to reach 100m in ~1 minute (which is my main limiting factor).

Thanks guys!

 

[Jason Billows]

Congrats on the PB.

I agree with Jome. You`re going really fast in my opinion. Experiment with slowing things down and see how it goes. What is your static? If you work on your dynamic I'm sure you'll be able to go much longer than 1 minute.

Jome, thanks for posting that video. Love the technique. I wouldn't advise anyone to speed up so much in the end of their dynamic though. He really motored that last 50m. I've seen so many people samba or BO because they sped up at the end like that.

Jason

 

[commonerg]

That's a great example of one school of dynamic swimming. While he is clearly a very talented apneist, I don't think this is a video to learn from. His technique looks very labored and with all the body movement, most of his power is still coming from his thighs. I say anyone looking to go this slow should invest in a pair of longblades. It is very very hard to keep an efficient technique at such a slow speed using a mono.

 

[watts]

I found this vid on the freedive finland site it has 2 guys technique 1 good 1 not so good.http://www.freedivingfinland.net/nu...ad&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=19

Congrats on the new pb Merlin

 

[JPPLAY]

You need to kick from the hips and it your stream line doesn't look tight. make sure you get your elbows in and you push your ears against your head. Dolphin kick should be all from the hips. Working on your abs will help you with your kick.

 

[jome]

I posted the video to show that there are different approaches. I think that the traditional finswimming technique is only one way to make good dynamics. For some people it may even be impossible to execute or very hard, because it requires very good flexibility in the hip and upper body etc etc.

I agree that Teppo's (153m video) technique does not look "good" if you judge it from the traditional finswimming mono technique point of view. Yet, it's a national record and beats many "good" swimmers by over 25m. I think that for apnea swimming, in which energy conservation is the key, there are two different strategies.

If you watch closely, you will see that while the technique seems "sloppy" and the amplitude is really wide, it is in fact very rehearsed and soft, making it possible to go so slow. Also the sprinting in the end is not co-insidental but an essential and rehearsed part of his strategy. It's a different thing when someone who is in the end of his limit does a "panic sprint".

Anyway, just another way of doing things...

One more point about the original clip. I think that trying to go too fast too soon, you will hindure your technique from developing "right" (talking about the traditional style here). You should not stare at the clock so much at this point, but just do relaxed laps of maybe 25 or 50m and concentrate on the kick and getting it right. It's much easier to increase the speed after your technique is together. But if you learn to go fast with a wrong technique, you will eventually have to unlearn it if you want to go forward, which can really be a pain in the ass...

I know, it's hard Those damn pb's are just too tempting...But that's how I think one SHOULD approach it...I'm not much better at following that advice my self

 

[Merlin]

Roland (immerlustig) sent me this excellent points which may help anyone else trying to improve their own technique. I hope you all find it as useful as I did.

hi merlin,

we just spent some time with your video and here is what we came up with. note that this is just our personal opinions based on our experiences and knowledge. let me know whatyou think of it.

-uneven kicking, especially in the beginning (kick no2-5)

usually that comes from uneven leg-kicks. when kicking out of the upper boddy (legs only following through), that should become less of an issue.

-arms (elbows) wide

even with broad shoulders, the elbows can be closer together (touching your head). shoulders will be raised up more (forward) therefore reducing cross section.

- hand movement (not quite clear from the video)

don't lead into the wave by moving your hands up and down (causes resistance).

-fingerlock (unclear from the video)

seems like hands are not flat on top of each other (could be wrong). top hands thumb and pinky wrap around lower hand.

-knee position

in kicks no 8 and 9 your knees come apart. that is also caused by doing leg kicks.

-shoulder flexibility

especially on the down-kick, when the hip comes up (and the upper body points down) flexibility will be required. when standing completely straight (check in mirror) your arms would basically point backwards.

-lower back flexibility

seems relatively stiff. that can also be a reason why you bend your knees so much. a stiff back restricts leg movement upwards.

-armposition

around kick no10 your arms are pointing too much down

-turnaround

work some more on timing. don't look ahead. that armpull comes a bit early as well, you lose some momentum (still, don't run into the wall too fast, you will waste a lot of energy by breaking). your hand pushes off too soon and too sharp (snappy?), allow your body to gently turn close to the wall, for maximum kick-off. bring arms forward close to your body. don't kick off too early while your body is still not straightened out. also your first follow-up kicks will be more in line and more efficient.
you can practise by doing a turn and the kick-off and measuring how far you glide after that.

generally:

-weight yourself properly, dive without suit
-try doing slower dynamics with more undulation. focus on relaxation, position, waterflow over your body (!). that should improve smoothness and reduce resistance.
-when doing fast (peter p-like) dynamics copy his style )
note: he is EXTREMELY (!!) flexible
-try to make yourself as long as possible. feel the undulation starting from your hands (downwards pressure as you kick). most work will be done by abs/upper body. the main push comes from the final snap of the blade.
-if you are into cw as well, you might consider that a bit wider undulation (allows better relaxation) and a bit more leg work isn't too bad.
-most importantly, though, try to be smooth and fluid in your movements (therefore swim a lot, be relaxed and let it flow). no matter what personal preferences will define your style this will be a deciding factor in how efficient you will be.

example: peter told me about his years (!) of intensive training to get where he is today. and by intensive i mean intensive. all expert freedivers i have had the pleasure to train with (peter p, herbert, bevan, etc) have an extensive training record of at least 3-5 years of freediving specific training. so anything less than a few years of dedicated mono training won't make you a grandmaster
it all comes down to the simple fact that you have to spend as much time as possible in water (especially since there are no training centers and you have to find out by yourself). technique and style for the different disciplines is still evolving, so getting too hung up on little details is maybe just off-putting. go and enjoy )

greetings from my aircon room (outside 43 celsius...)

roland

 

[BennyB]

Wow. Roland, when are you writing your book mate? That is some excellent advice.

Watts and I have started a new training regime with our monofins. In my case I feel I can go a certain distance but it is hard work and feels like i'm fighting the water the whole way - i've done a couple of 100m with the mono and it's been exhausting, getting lactic quite early. Thus it wasn't hard to conclude that technique is shoddy and needs some dedicated work. So for the meantime I am not worrying about breath hold, and just concentrating on technique, numerous 25m laps with the occasional 50m thrown in.

At least half of our time is spent using small trainer fins, partly because they are excellent for technique, partly because I can only keep the monofin on for 10-20 minutes at a time before my feet hurt too much :vangry . In the last couple of sessions i've noticed a big improvement with using the trainer fins, when you nail a good technique you really feel it in the water and come up noticeably more fresh than when you haven't nailed it. It's also helped me reduce my undulation size and get more continuous constant motion rather than push,glide,slow,push,glide,slow etc. When I am cruising along the motion is a similar feeling to lying belly down on a Swiss ball and rocking slightly forwards and backwards.

One question though - I try to keep my legs straight and have them "hang" behind me, ie. the movement is generated in the top half and flows through the legs and mono, but the last practice session my calves were quite sore afterwards, indicating that I had been inadvertantly been kicking upwards though not really knowing I was doing it. Does anyone else have this problem and is it a symptom of a poor top half technique? For the record I am a shade under 6 foot and not very flexible at all.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[island_sands]

I reached a new PB of 83m tonight, I am aiming to reach 100m in the next 8 weeks. But I would greatly appreciate if you guys could give me a critique of my monofining technique. The video only shows about 45m because I ran out of memory on my camera. Two problems I can see now is that my knees are bending too much and I think I am swimming a bit slow (around 35-37 sec per 50m). The pool is a 50m and oh yeah the end of pool turn was a disaster too bad (or good :hmm ) that it didn't show up.

Many thanks!
Irian

HOMBRE~!!!! me cago en diez....
bien hecho... vamos a los 100!!!!

 

[Merlin]

HOMBRE~!!!! me cago en diez....
bien hecho... vamos a los 100!!!!

haha Sara creeme que lo estoy tratando! no cerbeza hasta que lo logre es suficiente incentivo

 

[island_sands]

haha Sara creeme que lo estoy tratando! no cerbeza hasta que lo logre es suficiente incentivo

jo'!!! pues prontito te podras ir a borrachar...

 

[Merlin]

My trophy rofl

 

[commonerg]

I can't wait until we hit our goals so I can have a few drinks. :friday

*Holds up protein shake* Here's to personal bests.

 

[Merlin]

I can't wait until we hit our goals so I can have a few drinks. :friday

*Holds up protein shake* Here's to personal bests.

Tell you what I buy you a beer for your 150m and you buy me one for my 100m

 

[commonerg]

Perhaps we can throw a party in my new apartment. Assuming we actually make our goals which we will, no doubt. I move in early August. Anyone who is reading this is invited (Any more freedivers in the Atlanta area that we don't know about?).

 

[Merlin]

Perhaps we can throw a party in my new apartment. Assuming we actually make our goals which we will, no doubt. I move in early August. Anyone who is reading this is invited (Any more freedivers in the Atlanta area that we don't know about?).

Sounds good....even more incentive. I am feeling more pumped now!