New Elios 6mil smooth out review

[Fondueset]

On monday I got my new suit. It's a 6 mil smooth out top with 'Benthos' camo, and 6 mil nylon out bottoms with knee pads (zebra muscles and rocks). Both have the 'new black' coating open cell interior. My logic was to get the smooth top to avoid the heat wicking problem with nylon suits in cold air/wind.

It was a good day to test! Water temps are now in the upper 30s and the wind was howling out of the south with enough force to get under my Omer Shardana float and flip it over. Air was a balmy 34-38. In fact I just let the float pull me the last 100 yards or so to the dive site. Diving was difficult since I had to fight the float all the way down and it was still trying to pull me north on the bottom. Visibility was amazing near shore, but diminished by about a third to a mere 60 or 70 feet 1/4 mile out.

I'm blown away by the diff between this and my 5 mil nylon out suit (also elios and I dove all last winter in it). It is not an incremental improvement but a huge leap. After two hours I came out with a light chill - just enough to be refreshing really. The only cold part was my finger tips. There was no sense of the air ripping off my heat. My feet stayed warmer and I didn't need my Ice mask.


I was also trying out some new gloves the local scuba shop gave me - Henderson Insta-dry 5 mils. These are actually pretty nice freediving gloves - basically smooth in with a tough, textured exterior - but no fabric. The neoprene is sandwiched around a layer of nylon. I'm impressed - these are very warm gloves. Almost as warm as my 6 mil 3 finger gloves, and warmer than my 6.5 mil henderson gold cores. Above probably 45 F or so they are likely perfect. They don't have the gauntlet wrist closures of most cold weather gloves and they sealed pretty well with my suit though the wrist cuffs are a bit short(on the gloves).


This is an Awesome wetsuit! I can't believe how warm it is. Once I got out of the wind - so I could stay still - and the sun came out I was nearly overheating! Getting into the suit was not much different than my other one. Taking it off requires some care - and water so the suit will slide against itself, but I managed it all with no damage.

 

[PoseidonSv]

Oh you almost have same suit as i bopught but mine is pants also smooth outside and inside is goldebgreen coating. And yes its much warmer than a 5mm and has alot of more floating also.

 

[Pinggene]

Fondueset,

How much extra weight did you need over your 5mm?

Also, how long do you think the smoothskin will last compared to your nylon outer.

Could the extra warmth you experienced be due to the 6mm vs 5mm instead of the smooth out vs nylon out?

Thanks,

Pinggene

 

[Fondueset]

It's definitely the smoothskin - there is no wicking away of heat at the surface. I can tell the diff between the pants - which are also six mil but nylon out - and the top. I'd been told about it but really had no idea what a huge difference it makes.

the smoothskin is quite a bit more fragile. And harder to take off. But the neoprene is very stretchy and Elios reinforces the seems in critical spots. The smoothskin suit also has seals added around the inside of the face and cuffs. It's cut a little differently in the face and I can bring the hood right down to the top of my mask too keep the freezing water off my forehead.
I added two pounds - it takes noticeably more effort to get down in the first 5 meters or so. I went again today and didn't even get a chill! I'll use my 5 mil when the air and water get back up around 50 unless I'm diving all day.

PoiseidonSV - what sort of interior coating is that?

 

[Jon]

Chris,

I got out today as well- 37F water temp but mid 40's for air. I wore my reversible 5mm pants with the smoothskin in and nylon out. Not as warm as a traditional opencell interior but did the trick. I decided to pull out my 6mm Smoothskin/opencell top and never got a chill- I don't even think I got wet!

Hands were toasty in Elios 5mm three finger mitts, but my socks need to be upgraded. I have some older 5mm low density socks and I'll go with a denser rubber next time I buy new socks. I can't say I was chilled, as I stayed in longer than the scuba divers and only got out because the vis was crap. I might look into some Spetton 5mm socks off the DB store for a Christmas gift to myself.

My smoothskin/opncell suit is as fragile as the come, but my 6mm suit has held up fairly well over the past 3 winters. My 3mm suit made out of the same stuff blew apart after only a season and a half. I think that the thicker rubber has a little better staying power.

I wore 17 pounds and was comfortable even up in the shallow weed beds- way too much weight for out deeper.

BTW: I scared up one tiger musky out in about 20' of water but all the blue gill and crappie where in shallow- less than 8'.

Jon

 

[PoseidonSv]

I irdered it with golden coating and got it with a greengolden coloured coating. I can send photos of the inside if you like, mine also has the reinforcement strips on the inside which i think is very professional of elios to add!

 

[Fondueset]

I've yet to see a musky in person! I did see a bunch of smallmouth - they stay out in the open area east of the pipeline and almost to the end. They aren't coming in as close but I think it's mainly because they move less this time of year. I noticed the gobies are still around as well - and I saw only one lake trout - a very large one. Numerous suckers lounging around on the bottom and one fish I'm not sure about. Saw it from the top. It appeared fairly heavy bodied - more oval shaped than a trout - about 24 inches long and moving quickly. Its swimming pattern was also a little different than the trout - quicker changes of direction with few glides. Possibly a large gizzard shad or whitefish.

The henderson insta-dries are really good for five-finger gloves - but I need a better 3 finger mitt for long dives in this cold.

Jon, how does smooth in compare with open cell in general? Seems like it would be much easier to get in and out of if the heat difference is not too much.

PoiseidonSV - I agree - the armpit reinforcements are great - and right in the area that gets the most stress when you are taking it off or putting it on.

 

[Jon]

open cell is warmer. I am kind of regretting getting a reversible suit in a 5mm- a 3mm reversible would have been fine as a summer suit, but a 5mm is too much of a compromise between seasons. Wearing it nylon in goes on really easily but any kind of a nylon lined suit is so cold that it's just not worth it except in the warmest of water. Wearing it smoothskin in is a lot warmer than nylon in, but still not as warm as opencell in.

My 6mm opencell is a bit of a pain to put on but is very warm and has lasted so much longer than my 3mm, made out of the same material, that I can't complain. Next suit for me will be a 5mm opencell/nylon suit with some kind of camo for spearing.

As far as mitts go, I picked up this pair of 3-finger mitts from elios that are 5mm thick and have a slick silver coating on the inside. They are very warm and only cost me $25! That's a bargain considering my old Picasso 3-finger mitts go for around $110 these days and aren't nearly as warm. I also have a pair of DUI dry gloves that I can wear with my wetsuit, but the Elios mitts are so warm, and SO much easier to put on that I hardly ever use them.

Jon

 

[Fondueset]

Maybe I'll have them throw in some of those mits when I order my daughter's suit. Makes sense a 3 mil smooth/open suit would be pretty fragile compaired with a 5 or six. I figure a 3 mil is for fairly warm water anyway so why not get a lining out. The one I have has plush inside too - it's pretty good once temps get into the low 60s.

 

[Jon]

Fred has a 3mm smoothskin suit with an internal nylon lining that has held up for over 4 years so far! I think that's pretty good considering how fragile the stuff is without lining.

jon

 

[Pinggene]

I'm almost ready to order my Elios suit, mitts & socks. I was planning on 5mm opencell with nylon outer. I think I may still go with that because this is my first opencell & I will need the extra durability the nylon will provide.

Thoughts?

Do you suggest 5mm or 7mm for the socks?

Fondueset, thank you for the great photos/videos you provide. I hope to see some of that on the Wisconsin side of Lake Michigan.

Gene

 

[Fondueset]

I agree - my 5 mil suit - which is my first freediving suit - would've been destroyed if it didn't have nylon out - just from the abuse of me learning to get in and out of it. I'm using 5 mils socks and my toes get a little cold when the water gets into the low 40s.

 

[fjohnson]

Hi, my 3mil suit is lined with the superstretch... I love that suit and would get another in an instant when this one fails me, I've only recently considered a new suit just because of the age.. maybe it lasts so long because I don't ever wizz in it :t ..

Jon, that pic of you poking the sunfish (with your finger:naughty ) and the speargun in the pic is the best sunfish pic I've ever seen. That's a good one!
Fred

 

[icarus pacific]

Howzit, Fred? Getting a tad bit cold and white there I see.

 

[Pinggene]

Fonduset,

How long did it take for you to get your suit from Elios. I think I will be biting the bullet tonight! Hopefully it will be here by the 2nd weekend in Feb for the ice dive. I don't think I will make the Jan 1 Carp Shoot in Madison.

Jon,

You previously mentioned that I would need to cut off the hood on my 3mm hooded vest to use under my 5mm. Is this due to leakage? What if my vest has an open cell inner?

Thanks.

Gene

 

[DeepRN]

Chris: I really like the look of those Henderson 5mm Insta-dry mits. They look as if they maintain a good amount of dexterity. I KNOW you're diving cold water right now too. Not too sure how long the local dive shop has loaned them to you for, but please add any further conclusions/comments on them. It would be great to see the new suit - say late spring/early summer in Telegraph Cove?

Gene: My two cents on the new suit... I have a 5mm blackshadow from Elios, open cell, nylon out (not superstretch). It's a great suit. Nice and warm. One thing I will absolutely do with my next suit however, is have knee pads put on. I believe Chris did this with his new suit. This is the location of the most wear (in my opinion), and the knee pads will be an asset.

I still lean toward the nylon exterior (at least for the canadian west coast). There IS heat loss due to wicking. I keep a thin rubber, navy blue rain suit (pant/jacket) with me. I can throw it on between dives and retain most of the warmth.

Cheers

Gabe

 

[Fondueset]

It took about a month - but results may vary. They said 20 days but I know from experience they are optimists. 2nd week in feb seems reasonable though. Make sure your 'measures' are correct - and expect to have to redo them!

 

[Fondueset]

Hey Gabe,

They actually GAVE me the insta drys. I happened to have a few 19 inch monitors around and, when I visited them one day, was apalled by the yellowed 14 inch jobs they had - so I gave em to them. Thus; the gloves.

In terms of dexterity and warmth they are superior to my 6.5 mil henderson gold cores. They are actually warmer than the 6 mil 3 finger mits I have and, obviously, more dextrous. I think a good set of titanium or smooth lined 3 finger mits like jon describes would beat them in serious cold however. My hands stay comfortable for about 45 minutes at the current water temp - which I think is at or just below 40F. The other day I was in for 90min - 2 hours and the only reason I got out was my fingertips - but I was being a wus (30mph winds and STILL WARM!!). The cuffs on these gloves are a little short and wide - but they do seal well under the suit. They are by far the best gloves I've used. After my last dive I spent another 30 minutes playing with my Riffe MT0 in shallow water and my hands warmed back up!

TC looks a little sketchy at this point. It is a huge priority and some factors that were a real problem last time are WAY better - but I have some other maneuvers I need to pull off first. We'll see - My new suit is PERFECT for those waters. You wouldn't believe the difference in warmth. If you can swing it a smooth top is awesome for cold conditions and endurance. The kneepads are great and really don't interfere with flexibility in any significant way.

I'll post pics of the gloves and suit tonight.

 

[Jon]

Gene,

The reason I said that is because we all use wetsuits with attached hoods. If you go ahead and get the Elios suit you will be so warm you won't even think twice about wearing it. I would just keep it for a summer suit and go with the Elios suit alone.

In answer to your previous question, a 5mm suit opencell/nylon would be a great suit to start with and keep you warm enough for the ice dive. 5mm socks are fine as you'll find 7mm socks too thick to fit into any normal sized footpockets. 3-finger mitts, around 5mm, are great for your hands. With stock cut suits I used to wear a Henderson ice cap under my suit, but since I switched to custom cut Elios suits I no longer wear it since the hoods on the suit are cut so nice they keep my face warm all by themselves.

Fred,

I've pissed in a few wetsuits, and even a couple of drysuits, and that never seemed to hurt them much.rofl

Having a nylon lining on one side of the suit decreases the warmth but bolsters the strength, and life span, of them so much it makes them last for years- instead of months.

Jon

 

[Fondueset]

Right - the Henderson Ice cap! As I mentioned - the new suit has a different cut around the face and I don't need it anymore! Which is good because I lost mine a few weeks ago in a strong south wind. Some cormerant up near Charlevoix has probably fallen in love with it by now.